ClassicCar

Researchia

I'm a historian with the City of Phoenix, Arizona and we're installing an interpretive sign at 424 N. Central Avenue in a historic building that was constructed as a car dealership in 1926. A.E. England Motors, Inc. sold Hudsons and Essexes into the early 1930s.

I found a historic photo of Jack Dempsey visiting the building on February 26, 1930. This date is verified by newspaper reports (he officiated at a fight that night.)

He's standing in front of an unknown car with two Phoenix motorcycle policemen (escorts for the day). Surely that's a Hudson or Essex behind them? It said in newspaper reports that Dempsey went on promotional stops throughout the day.

Any help identifying the car is MUCH appreciated!

Jack_Dempsey_at__A.E._England_1930_PHOENIX_POLICE_MUSEUM_small.jpg

Jack_Dempsey_at__A.E._England_1930_PHOENIX_POLICE_MUSEUM_small.jpg

hudsonsplasher1

Looks like a 29 Phaeton. Also, looks like the guy on the right of the photo it standing in front of a Hudson. Maybe a 30? Cool picture.

Researchia

I compared my photo to others online of the 1929 Phaeton (dual cowl, yes?) and looks just like it! Even found the same hubs.

Thanks for the help. I like this photo a lot, too.

oldhudsons

yes, the hubcaps identify it as a '29 Hudson, the fully folding windshield along with the visibility of it having rear doors means it can only be that, a '29 Hudson "sports phaeton", or dual cowl phaeton, body by Biddle & Smart, on a 139" wheelbase.

I live in the Phoenix area - is the old dealership building still there & intact?

oldhudsons

by the way, there is another '29 Hudson parked behind the dual cowl, identifiable by the front bumper, and my dad was a big fan of Jack Dempsy.

oldhudsons

also, if you could blow up the pic, you'd see "HUDSON SUJPER SIX" embossed into the sidemount tire cover in the triangle that is visible.

(I've owned a number of '29 Hudsons).

Researchia

I THOUGHT that logo on the tire cover looked like others I had seen on Hudsons online.

Yes, the building is still there, albeit near all alone on its block. It's just south of the Hotel Westward Ho and the 1936 post office. It's now part of a park space (not yet open) right on Central Ave., across from some of ASU's new buildings.

The building is not yet open after it's rehab. I'll post on here when they have the opening. Hopefully the sign will be done and installed by then, too. There's still marks in the concrete floor where the car lifts were, and a ramp that went down to the basement. It's a great building, and I'm glad it's still there.

Researchia

Should I call it, then, officially, a 1929 Hudson Phaeton dual cowl?

We have an ad from the dealer stating they went for $1,500, so I'm going to put that on the sign, too.

oldhudsons

the factory called that model a "sports phaeton".

I have, or had, an original ad & I believe that price is correct, $1495. If you want to know exactly I'll see if I have the ad.

Researchia

The ad I have is from the dealer, A.E. England Motors, Inc. from February 16, 1930. It appeared in the Arizona Republican. I'll just take the "dual cowl" part out. Some people may get overwhelmed by so much interesting information

Researchia

You wouldn't happen to be the fellow who has the massive collection down in Maricopa, would you? Or do you know him? I read an article somewhere about him one time. Maybe Hemmings Classic Car.

Jon B

Would you be referring to Al Saffrahn?

There is a reflection in the dealership window, of a sign across the street. I wonder if it says MARMON EIGHT?

37 Terraplane#2 · 37 Terraplane#2 April 2009 Posts: 1,659Platinum Member

That aint nothin but coool ! Our local dealership bldg in Salem, Indiana is still here, in good shape and occupied. The dealer, RAY DAVIS is still with us, in his 90's now I think, Still got his old Essex. Doug WIldrick maintains it for him when it needs anything. When you talk to Ray he's still sharp as a tack and remembers it all . Loves to chat about things. BUD

oldhudsons

No, you're referring to Al Saffrahn.

I have a place in Prescott where a lot of my stuff is but have most of my literature collection here, I'm in Surprise.

oldhudsons

I just went out into the garage where I have the bulk of my Hudson lit. collection and found a 2 page ad for the '29 Hudsons from "The Literary Digest for March 23, 1929".

It shows a so-called "dual cowl" phaeton in color & below it:

"The Greater Hudson Five-Passenger Sport Phaeton"

"92 Horsepower - above 80 miles an hour"

No price is listed.

oldhudsons

Hudson advertised a lot in Sat. Eve. Post during that period, BIG 2 page color ads.

The ad I mentioned above has 4 people in riding attire posed with a horse - it's a drawing not a photo, in color as is car below them.

nhp1127

I fought Dempsey when I was in sixth grade... oh wait- that was Mark Dempsey... never mind....

RL Chilton

nhp1127 wrote:

I fought Dempsey when I was in sixth grade... oh wait- that was Mark Dempsey... never mind....

Niels-

If you were that old, chicks wouldn't dig you near as much as you think they do:D

Researchia-

What would be cool as well, if this photograph is to be used in the building, a modern day picture staged similar to the one alongside it would be very cool ( although a modern celebrity might be more appropriate than Dempsey, as I'm sure he's unavailable) . . . kind of a "then and now" retrospect.

Cool photo, and cool project!

RL Chilton

Jon B wrote:

Would you be referring to Al Saffrahn?

There is a reflection in the dealership window, of a sign across the street. I wonder if it says MARMON EIGHT?

You got "Marmon Eight", out of that fragment! That's very insightful, I'm impressed, I was trying to come up with something, myself. "Apache" next to it is easy. Of course, you might just be right (and I'll believe you are), but could be several other words there that might fit.

RL Chilton

oldhudsons-

Is this the ad you were referring to?

oldhudsons

yes, that is the ad I have.

the '29 in your pic has been "dudied up" a lot with many lights etc. which may have been period accessories but not offered by Hudson.

ESSX28-1 · ESSX28-1 April 2009 Posts: 995Platinum Member

oldhudsons wrote:

yes, that is the ad I have.

the '29 in your pic has been "dudied up" a lot with many lights etc. which may have been period accessories but not offered by Hudson.

I wasn't aware that "turning spot lights" could be fitted to Hudsons.

Can they be made to work with Essex?

oldhudsons

I think those were only originally put on fire trucks so putting those & Trippe driving lights on the Hudson just "duding it up" to try & win concours!

frank spring

http://www.classiccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17501

This thread has so much in common. Interesting that they both hit at about the same time.

hudsontech

Best I could come up with for a factory price for the dual-cowl phaeton was $2200.

Hudson factory prices are hard to pin down - you can have, say, 4 different ads from 4 different times, ie, Mar, Jun, Sept and Oct, for example, and have 4 different prices. Also such Hudson literature that exists, in bulletins, also has a tendency to have price changes, seemingly every 3 or 4 months.

Hudsonly,

Alex Burr

HudsonTech

Memphis, TN

essexcoupe3131

what would somrthing like this be worth today?

it definatley had lots of bling factor, cool color

Researchia

MARMON EIGHT... that makes sense, although I haven't found mention that A.E. England sold Marmons. That sign has been a mystery to us in the office.

Researchia

Russell-

WISH I could recreate the photo somehow. I think there's new landscaping in front.

MAYBE I could see if any Hudson & Essex owners around Phoenix would be interested in June (hot, I know), when the building opens, to park out front. I'm debating with my boss right now whether or not that's even possible.

oldhudsons

If you're referring to the one in the museum photo, I'd estimate in the $100 K range as they are accepted by the CCCA as a full "classic" car.

Due to rarity it might bring as much as $150K at a big time auction.

Researchia

Guess we won't be getting one of those for static display in our rehabilitated dealership building!

Researchia

IMPORTANT!

I'm going to start a separate thread with a call for Hudsons, Essexes & Marmons, 1926-1930 in the Phoenix area for the June re-opening of this building.

I know it is a shot in the dark, and these are very rare and expensive vehicles, but we'd be ecstatic the have ONE parked out front at the open house.

We're even considering years beyond 1930 for those makes. If any of you know anyone, could you have them email me at jodey (dot) elsner (at) phoenix (dot) gov?

oldhudsons

right off hand I don't know of any '29 Hudsons here in the Phoenix metro area unless this one guy, who used to belong to the HET Club, still has his. He had a Railton too but sold it so not sure if he has the '29 or not.

It is like the one the girl is photographed in.

I can't remember his name offhand but will ponder that. If he's still into cars I'm sure he belongs to the CCCA.

HMMMMMMMMMMMM

Researchia

I sent an email to Tom Conner I found on the Grand Canyon chapter website. We may end up with a bunch of '50s, but that could still work. Would LOVE for that '29 guy to find us, but am really doubtful anything that vintage will end up in my inbox.

You've been a great help, oldhudsons... THANKS!

HUDSONNUT

Hi

I'm Tom Conner, President of the Grand Canyon Chapter (GCC) of the HET Club. I received an E-mail just now about this with a link here and had to check it out. We do have some older Hudsons in Arizona with some here in the Valley. I will check to see if I can set up a group of cars for this. We do have many late 40's and in the '50's that we could provide as well. I'll send an e-mail to our members to see what we can provide and let the person from Phoenix know. The GCC would very much like to be a part of this.

You can contact me at tlcon815@aol.com

Tom

Researchia

Hello, Tom!

I sent you an email about an hour ago. This would be great. Let me know if you get affirmative responses.

Did you know this building had been a Hudson dealer? I know it pre-dates most of the cars in the club (I assume). But cool nonetheless.

I'm at jodey (dot) elsner (at) phoenix (dot) gov if you hear anything.

THANKS!

oldhudsons

I have Club Rosters going back 20 - 30 years so will consult those, see if I can find the guy's name, etc.

Jon B

Researchia wrote:

MARMON EIGHT... that makes sense, although I haven't found mention that A.E. England sold Marmons. That sign has been a mystery to us in the office.

You might check your old city directories for the late 1920's, for the address of the building in question (and nearby ones), to see if there did happen to be a Marmon dealer nearby.

hudsonsplasher1

How about Ken Kenewell. He has a 29 Victoria Convertible, and is in Suncity. Email is k.kenewell@worldnet.att.net. Or phone # 623-910-5824

oldhudsons

the guy with the '29 Hudson here locally is:

Ken Kenewell of Sun City, tele. # (in '08 Roster): 623-910-5824.

He has a one-off Glazer (German) bodied "convertible victoria" & is listed as being in #1 condition so he must have finished the restoration of it (last time I talked to him, still had body apart).

The Roster has his e-mail address too Tom but not sure if it or tele. # current but give him a call.

akcoop

I have seen Ken's 29 and it is a beaut! Door opens both ways, forwards and backwards. That way they can get you coming and going.

Used as a taxi in Venezuela if I remember right.

I would bring mine, but alas it is too far a drive from Afghanistan!!

HUDSONNUT

AARON

I hope all is well with you - we think of you often and thank you for your service.

Several people have mentioned Ken '29. I know Ken Kenwell and have seen his '29 and it was great. The doors are really intriguing. I'm going to call him tomorrow to see if he'd provide it for the Phoenix program in June.

I know of some other Hudsons in the Grand Canyon Chapter in the vintages Phoenix wants and am working on that.

I've been in contact with Jodey of Phoenix and plan on being able to help them out.

Tom Conner

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