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In this Discussion
- 37 Terraplane#2 May 2008
- 66patrick66 May 2008
- half baked May 2008
- Jon B August 2008
- jsrail June 2008
- Ol racer June 2008
- rambos_ride June 2008
- Sarah Young May 2008
- Sgnl50 August 2008
- ski4life65 May 2008
- tristansdaz May 2008
- unclescooby June 2008
- WildWasp June 2008
is this old race car worth saving?
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I bought this on Ebay and it's rough. If it has history, it's restorable but if it doesn't then I don't see it being cost effective to save. It does run. Anybody got any insight? It appears to have last been raced as a dirt track car but I think it might have been something more significant before that. It was very well built and someone spent serious time and money on it originally. Anybody got a clue? I'd gladly tip for old pix or information about this car. Thanks!
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when i spied this on ebay i noticed that it had a stepdown column in it and thought nothing more of it, but now i take a second look i see it has a stepdown front subframe grafted in. i didnt click on it until i realised it has a stepdown twin h manifold- they dont work on hashes since the strut towers take up so much space. as you say this HAS had a lot of effort put in- does it still have the torque tube rear end in it? or has that been swapped to work with the stepdown open driveline trans? i suspect the front end was swapped to make for better handling. dig the R/H shock tower! and what the helll is that front right hub?
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yeah, the rear end is a split case unit with magnesium hubs like from a quick change unit. I'll take more pictures Monday night when I get back to the shop. Strange car...
hudson nascar suspension_121112249150773.JPG500 x 377 - 33K -
These ex-race cars usually get scrapped If the work looks like it was well done - even without documentation, it would be a worthy effort to restore to a vintage racing level.
If you could find/get documentation, pictures, letters etc. well then the restoration question kinda answers itself! -
I agree, it's worth putting back in race condition. There are so few survivors of the dirt track era left. I'd bet you would have the only one around!
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I'd redo the car, regardless of the pedigree or provinance! Like they said, there are so few of the old dirt cars left...and you'd have the ONLY one at the HET Nats! Or anywhere else, for that matter!"The time has come", the Walrus said, "to speak of many things. Of shoes and ships and sealing wax, of cabbages and kings. And why the sea is boiling hot,
And whether pigs have wings..." -
Pic not too good but the right front hub is likely 3/4 ton ford rear hub and spindle, very commonly used in the old days, they did'nt break off like a stock front spindle would.
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FYI
The old Race Car had a lot of work done originally and probably was upodated once or twice to fit different Classes of competition . It may have been a Stepdown originally then updated to the 'newer' Body.
The rear is a 3/4 Ton Ford that was very popular back in the Day. It has either a 4.86 or 6.66 Ratio with probably welded spider Gears.. I personally used them for two different size Dirt Tracks. I also used the 4.86 with a Stroker Motor and 6.66 without because had lot less Torque...It took a few hrs to split the case to change the gears. That Ford Rear evolved into todays Quick Change Rears made by Winters. Franklin, and others...
Like mentioned earlier the Front spindle is a 3/4 Ton 'snout' slid over the stock spindle then welded to prevent spindle beakage. The 3/4 Ton 8 Hole Wheels would have the centers torched out then 15' centers would be welded back inside the Rims....All in the sake of Safety and durability....
Additionally, there are Vintage Stock Car Groups in different parts of the Country that actually (friendly) Race these type of Stock Cars several different Tracks a Season. They run early Models & later Models together, V8's with the 6's, as a display of early Stock Car Racing... Sometimes even former area Drivers compete a few laps.
In my region there is an organization called 'Pittsburgh Circle Track Club'. At the very least you should restore the Hudson if at all possible. I have seen old Race Cars 'loaned' to Auto Museums and put on Display at local Stock Car Tracks to spike Interest even if they dont run and just trailered to & from. Unfortionally, I rarely see an old Hudson Stock Car..... Ran in circles long time. If have any specific stock car questions I would try to assist... -
Wow, thanks for all of the information. By "stepdown" cars you are referring to the previous body style like the "Fabulous Hudson Hornet" correct?
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thats right
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The car in question is really a ICON in the circle track era cars. A three year body that was badged as a Hudson and grafted to what was probably a successful stepdown (1948-1954) Hudson undercarriage. This is how it was done ... "in the day". I second the comments about the musueum and racing. The Talladega Stock car museum is a likely place to have such a car displayed.
Checking in with the circle tracks across the USA will get you connected very quickly... also check out Books A Million and thier Stock car books... no need to buy... browse and get some contact info form them... INTERNET resources abound... check NASCAR, AAA and other google terms to get you started.
Best wishes -
FYI
Took a closer look and seen some nice early suspension tricks with a 'panhard bar' on the rear and a 'traction' leaf set-up on the RR. Nobody ran that set-up around here...I also noticed a Racing Shock on the RF. By taking the time to modify the Twin H Intake over to dual 2 BBL Carbs instead of 1 bbls, and some other details, I wouldnt be suprised tif you find a 'Stroker' Crankshaft inside. I suggest checking the Stroke when you pull it down. Probably find a healthy racing Camshaft inside too. Cant tell type of Trans mission. Many racers converted to Ford clutch & trans back then to hold the Torque.
It depends on your intentions but even If you just (inexpensively) freshened it up and got it running you could easily resell or display at different venues. If its froze up you could put a used running motor in and bolt on some speed parts for appearance. Some Racing Museums would take it if they have room because its an actual race Car. You could either loan it or donate it and they would give you a Tax deduction Form.
In any case do not scrap the motor untilyou tear it down to see whats inside... -
Thanks so much guys, I really appreciate the help. We're gonna pull the engine hopefully this week and tear it down. I'm afraid that I might have paid too much for this car but if it was something significant or interesting, I'd spend the time and money putting it back to correct. I've gotten several PM's suggesting that this car was rebodied over a stepdown chassis plus what I'm seeing on this thread. I'd like that to prove to be true. I really like the earlier model much better as a race car and it certainly proved it's worth on the track. It seemed strange that someone would go to this effort to make a 4 door race car when the company was dying out at that time. Rebodying it would make sense to me for that reason. I'll post more pix and share information as I find it if you all are interested. Again, I sincerely appreciate the help here.
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The Re-body was probably to comply with the Race Tracks rule book on model yrs eligible to compete. I think the car was ran in the 60's in a Modified Division because dual 2 bbls were not stock and he probably couldnt find a 2 door.
Somebody put a lot of time & money in that car because in back those days nobody bent Tubing that nicely. Almost looks like a Grand National Cage with all the door bars... I see race shocks on the rear too. May have been an Blacktop Race Car... -
Does anyone know if Don Whitacre in Florida is still with us. He owned this car for many years. I do remember him saying this car was rebodied to comply with new rules. Don's son may also have some answers. I can't find my roster to look him up, but maybe somebody here can help contact him.
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unclescooby wrote:... I might have paid too much for this car but if it was something significant or interesting, I'd spend the time and money putting it back to correct...
Funny - I've been thinking after participating and reading this thread that for a piece of Hudson-based racing history that someone obviously put some and thought and work into - that you got an good deal!
I know the car looks rough, but it's not worse than the jet convertible prototype and I believe could be restored to it last known configuration and be well worth the time and effort.
If you decide to tackle a restoration, I bet you could get volunteers and possibly parts sponsored, paint etc to help make it happen. At least you don't have to redo the upholstery - that'll free up some money for the resto.
I think this is a really rare find and just wish it had been within towing distance to me as I might have bid on it
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ski4life65 wrote:Does anyone know if Don Whitacre in Florida is still with us. He owned this car for many years. I do remember him saying this car was rebodied to comply with new rules. Don's son may also have some answers. I can't find my roster to look him up, but maybe somebody here can help contact him.
I tried looking him up in the online Ocala phone directory but he is not listed. Any idea what his son's name is? There are a few Whitacres in the book. -
Thanks everyone. I'm sorry to come on the board and eat up space and knowledge here but I really appreciate the assistance. The car is pretty rough for sure but it's interesting and certainly uncommon. I'm going to dig into it physcially in the coming weeks and have e-mailed lots of folks per your suggestions to come up with Don's information and anything that anyone else might have. If you want, I'll keep you posted on the findings and the restoration (if there indeed is one). I'm really hoping to turn up the history and maybe an old picture or two of this car so it could be put back to some semblence of former glory. Thanks again.
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I see that unclescooby has put this car on Ebay in an effort to find out more info. He was able to talk to Don Whitacre (former owner). Hopefully he can keep us up to date with this cars history.
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Yes, and I've been getting a lot of great information. Don Whitacre is a super nice guy and was extremely helpful but only knew bits and pieces of the history. A gentleman wrote me today and said that he knows who built and raced this car and is sending me the information today I hope. The internet makes this so much easier. I don't know if the car has any real exciting history or not but it sure seems to have a story to tell and I would love to know it. Finding an old picture would be great too and if I had a name or body and tracks to put with it, that task becomes a lot easier. I will DEFINITELY share whatever I find with you guys. You have all been great and I've really enjoyed this whole process so far...other than spending all of the money of course!
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We are also going to need a new engine for this. Does anyone have anything near Indiana?
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unclescooby wrote:Yes, and I've been getting a lot of great information. Don Whitacre is a super nice guy and was extremely helpful but only knew bits and pieces of the history. A gentleman wrote me today and said that he knows who built and raced this car and is sending me the information today I hope. The internet makes this so much easier. I don't know if the car has any real exciting history or not but it sure seems to have a story to tell and I would love to know it. Finding an old picture would be great too and if I had a name or body and tracks to put with it, that task becomes a lot easier. I will DEFINITELY share whatever I find with you guys. You have all been great and I've really enjoyed this whole process so far...other than spending all of the money of course!
Keep me informed on the details - I'm pretty good at internet sluething...
and can help search for information. -
Welcome unclescooby! Yet another hamb recruit. Look forward to seeing some pics of this car on the drag strip one day! Take a Ride in a Hudson Jet!
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hmmm....I didn't get anywhere with asking for information on Ebay. Nobody seems to know anything more than Don Whitacre knew.
I have to be honest, I originally picked this up because I was looking for a Hudson engine for a hot rod I'm building and this was a complete setup with all of the good stuff, plus the unusual 2x2 intake. This car is a pretty ambitious restoration for just an old dirt tracker. If it had history as a NASCAR, I'm out of leads to track it.
If anyone knows of anything more about the car PLEASE let me know. Or if anyone is interested in the car (with or without the drivetrain, let me know that too. -
unclescooby wrote:hmmm....I didn't get anywhere with asking for information on Ebay. Nobody seems to know anything more than Don Whitacre knew.
I have to be honest, I originally picked this up because I was looking for a Hudson engine for a hot rod I'm building and this was a complete setup with all of the good stuff, plus the unusual 2x2 intake. This car is a pretty ambitious restoration for just an old dirt tracker. If it had history as a NASCAR, I'm out of leads to track it.
If anyone knows of anything more about the car PLEASE let me know. Or if anyone is interested in the car (with or without the drivetrain, let me know that too.
Here's a lead to a vintage racing group that might help, I'm sure there are other vintage racing clubs out there to contact.
http://www.mainevintageracecars.com/Members_Vintage_Race_Cars.htm
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Well...cost wise, I don't think it's going to pan out to save this one. no available history on it that we could find and our leads are exhausted. If anyone is interested in the body or chassis, let me know. Thanks for your help on this one guys. We made a legitimate effort. Hopefully I'll be back when I get a 49 or 50 Commodore like I've always wanted.
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Not yet. It will be a couple more weeks before I can tear the engine down. I'm hoping at least some of that is saveable. The drivetrain is why I originally bought this car and then started wondering if there was more to it.
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jsrail wrote:Someone save this one! Its too cool to part out.
UncleScooby - Maybe post to the classified @
http://www.mainevintageracecars.com/Members_Vintage_Race_Cars.htm
and try their contact email - these guys show the cars just the way they found them as well.
It always seems these kinds of finds are thousands of miles away - shipping costs just cut into trying to justify another project :mad: on top of the House, Property, Dog, 2 Hudsons, 4 Trucks I now am working on
I'm not a big circle track fan, but I really think this car needs to be saved and at a minimum preserved in its current state.
If someone just wants to ship the car to my house, I'll store it for free so it doesn't go to the crusher!
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That car is badass. I would'nt get to crazy. I think the patina looks awesome. Get it running and safe and drive it
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Uncle, you might send a photo of the car, plus your appeal for further information, to the editor of the Hudson club's magazine, The White Triangle News. Sam Jackson might find a place to tuck this into an upcoming issue and, with 3500 rabid Hudson fans seeing your photo, one of them might be able to come up with something. (Remember, there are many more people reading the WTN than viewing this Forum.)
Sam's address is HETfortyqtpi@earthlink.net -- drop the HET before sending.
