ClassicCar

cpr3333

I think I may have found another difference but I'm not sure...

I was looking at the seats in my parts car (non-deluxe) and noticed that the back of the front seat has a green vinyl insert. The deluxe has the same insert but is the same color vinyl as the rest of the seatback.

At first, I was thinking that maybe it was just a case of Hudson running out of the green vinyl (it is a late serial number) but now I'm wondering if it was part of the deluxe package. My thinking is that they replaced the green vinyl in the door inserts so maybe they just eliminated it from the seat back as well.

Any thoughts?

DocHubler

Chris,

I'm not sure exactly what you are referring to; the 50A Deluxe had the regular armrests on the doors like the senior cars, but lacked the chrome insert and ashtrays in the doors. I think the Standard Pacemaker didn't have the robe rail, while the deluxe did on the back of the front seat. I've attached a picture for how I did my car upholstery for my 50A car. This was done based on what was under some really horrible stapled on upholserty/vinyl added sometime in the 70s I'm guessing. Couldn't get the exact match for the Pacemaker upholstery which had the turquoise spots in it matching the blue spruce colored knobs on the car.

Tim

cpr3333

Tim,

I'll try to clarify...

The area of green vinyl on the door I'm referring to on the 'regular' Pacemaker is the same area on the doors where the Duluxe has the fabric matching the seats. As you mentioned, the other difference in this area was the armrests on the deluxe vs. a strap on the 'regular'.

The green vinyl on the back of my 'regular' seats covers most of the back seat, with a 9 to 12 inch strip of the gray vinyl as an outline running up the sides and across the top.

Both of my cars are Broughams and neither has a robe rail. Maybe due to the split seat? My Deluxe has two ash trays on the seat back where the 'regular' doesn't have any. (Another difference?)

I'm not sure what you mean about the turquoise spots in the upholstery - I thought it was just striped.

Last question - is that a Pacemaker steering wheel? The ivory wheel looks the same as mine but I just have a simple horn button with no ring.

DocHubler

Chris,

I had responded to this, but see the post was lost. I went back and found the swatch of the original fabric from my Pacemaker. The turquoise color is more of a stripe, but I remember now that the pull straps on that back quarters had the speckled color in them. Couldn't find either, but SMS fabrics provided the material I used which was as close as I could get. That stuff was a Cadillac fabric used in a similar vintage vehicle. You're right for the brougham with split seat there would be no robe rail, and it's interesting that both seat back has an ash tray. Maybe they didn't have one on the plain Pacemaker, but that just seems a little odd; where would people put their ashes? Seems that all middle to higher value cars did have some ash tray in the back. Perhaps if/when the vinyl was replaced, the threw away the ashtrays. If you take out the front cushions, you might be able to tell if it is a replacement and if there was ever an ashtray attached. Seems like a 1950 regular Pacemaker that I saw had the all green vinyl on the front doors, not just the inserts. Yes, the steering wheel on my car is original to the car, and the Deluxe came with the fancier Commodore style wheel. Your car should have it instead of the two spoke/horn button only type used on regular Pacemakers. I couldn't replicate the alabaster of the original wheel, so we painted it as close as possible after repair, and it looks good. As far as I know, nobody can replicate the alabaster plastics used on items like this. They were partially translucent. I've attached a picture of the swatch of fabric. This is what Pacemaker Deluxes actually had when new. I have a set of the door panel inserts for the Pacemaker Deluxe. I was going to use them, but although presumably NOS, they looked a little aged and I couldn't get a correct fabric to match the seats.

cpr3333

That fabric looks the same as the fabric in both of my cars. I have one pull strap with what looks like little diamonds of turquoise and I think the windlace that went around the doors had the same design.

Attached below is a picture of the seatback from my plain Pacemaker showing the two different vinyls. I'm guessing it's original. I should have just done that in the first place. It does look like it used to have ash trays - you can kind of see the holes and outline in the picture.

Here's a link to a page of a Hudson brochure showing the door panels on a plain Pacemaker with the green insert:

http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Hudson/1950_Hudson/1950_Hudson_Brochure/1950 Hudson Brochure-14.html

On the steering wheel, I have the same wheel on my deluxe, but the horn button is much plainer and there is no horn ring. I'm pretty sure it's original. My plain Pacemaker has the two spoke steering wheel you described.

Tallent R

Remember just because your car seemed to have come with a particular wheel does'nt mean the dealer did'nt swap it out to make a sale.
Roger

Browniepetersen

My 54 has the interior of a 50 Hudson. I am told that it was a drag racing thing?

DocHubler

Chris,

Yes, you are right about the turquoise diamonds on the windlace also -- its seems to me this was the same basic material they used for the pull straps. I just couldn't find anything to match that, and it was just way to ratty to keep. I may have some samples someplace else. Your car definitely seems to have had the ashtrays on the seat backs. Good luck finding those. I think they only used them on Pacemaker in 1950, and I've never seen any spares around. Do you have any pictures of the dash in your Pacemakers? In terms of the steering wheel, I cannot say with certainty that it came with that wheel of course. However, I know this is the wheel it had on it since the late 60s to early 70s. It's possible someone changed it in that time, but seems a little less likely to me given the overall condition/history of the car that I know.

1951hornethardtop

Tallent R makes a very good point. I remember a 51 Pacemaker that came from the dealer new with almost full 51 Hornet exterior trim. The guy wanted the short wheel base car and part of the deal was Hornet trim except for the hood orniment and tail lights. In later years I know a old guy that bought the high end car but didnt like the sport wheels. He said that if he was going to pay that much for a car it had to have whitewall tires. The dealer took the sport wheels off a cheaper car that had steel rims and hub caps and put it on the high end car and the sport wheels on the cheaper model and everyone was happy. I could go on but you get the point. To really know the difference you have to go to the factory specs.

cpr3333

OK, let's reset here...

I noticed a difference between the seat backs on my Pacemaker parts car and my Pacemaker Deluxe that is being restored. As I said in my first post, my original thought was that it was another case of Hudson just making an on-the-go change but then I wondered if it was an intentional difference. I figured that maybe they replaced the green vinyl on the seat backs since they had replaced it on the doors with fabric.

All of this is basically just curiosity on my part because I like to know things like this about cars. The things that make a 50A 'deluxe' especially intigue me because it is such a minor set of changes and yet a whole new serial number series was assigned.

1951hornethardtop - you suggested going to the factory specs for an answer. Do you know where I can find them for a 1950 Pacemaker Deluxe?

Tim - I do have the ashtrays for my Deluxe and probably have the ones from the parts car somewhere. My dad stripped the parts car years ago and I have boxes and boxes of parts from it. If I remember correctly, the ash trays have the same pattern on them as the dash. On the steering wheel, my dad bought the car from his uncle back in the mid fifties and he tells me that he never messed with it so I always assumed it was 'correct'. I've attached a picture. The steering wheel is very rough but I do have another that's in pretty good shape. The picture also shows the aftermarket turn signal module that my dad installed shortly after he got the car.

Long story short - does anyone KNOW everything that makes a 50A deluxe? Is it documented anywhere from 1950? If not, I guess we get to keep having these fun discussions.

Here's the list I have:

Armrests replacing straps and seat fabric replacing green vinyl on doors
Chrome front door window divider (what did the standard have?)
Dual 'stubby' horns replacing a single long horn
Three spoke ivory steering wheel (and maybe upgraded horn button/ring) replacing 2 spoke (my 2 spoke is green - were they all?)
Robe rail on 4 door cars

Anything else? Can I add different seat backs?

faustmb

I have seen the Deluxe with the center roof antennae as well, but I'm not sure if that s a deluxe option or a radio option. My standard Pacemaker was ordered with zero options.

1951hornethardtop

cpr3333, Im sorry I wouldnt know where to go. I assumed someone in the club would know. Unfortinitly The dealer i knew that used to sell them died last year at 93 years of age. This would make a good project for someone to research. Good luck

53jetman

I have attached a three page "Car Distribution Dept. Bulletin" #DL 50-14 issued by the Hudson Sales Dept. describing the availability of the model 50A, Pacemaker DeLuxe, pricing, options, and the actual differences between a Model 500 Pacemaker and the Model 50A Pacemaker DeLuxe. I hope this will help to put this matter to rest;. Please note, the three spoke steering wheel with the large hub and horn ring (Commodore Wheel) was an option on most of the cars built by Hudson in 1950.

DocHubler

Jerry,

Very cool, thanks for the attachment! So that answers most questions it would seem, although not all. I'm not sure i was clear from this on the window reveal moldings. My understanding is that the Deluxe had the stainless reveal moldings around all windows, while the standard didn't have any reveal moldings. As far as I'm aware, the green color of the vinyl seats/doors and the green wheel were the only color offered for the standard Pacemaker. I don't know if the headliners were the same -- mine was a type of mohair, common to most Hudsons back then. You could dress any of these cars up with fender spears, Commodore wheel, or radio, and on if you so chose. So I'm thinking that Chris 3 spoke steering wheel is the Deluxe standard wheel, but that my car had an upgrade to the Commodore wheel for whatever reason. My car didn't originally have the radio (and the Pacemaker radio is a slightly smaller unit than the Super or Commodore version). Radios could be ordered and if installed at the factory had the center roof antenna mast, while the dealer installed versions generally had the antenna placed on the fender. I added some other options onto the dash of my car. If you take the chrome escutcheons off the dash on each side of the steering column (where ignition/lights, starter are located), you will see they had "knockouts" or rather drill out places for additional switches or a cigarette lighter. The LWB cars had a little bit different layout and had the more convenient controls for the heater unit. For my car I added a switch for fog lamps, back up lamp, and cigarette lighter, and they all have the plastic blue spruce knobs. I've never found the little triangular lettering that says "FOG" for the fog lamp switch, so I just used another "LIGHTS" tag instead (same as for headlamp switch). Few Pacemakers have all these other options on them because by the time you added it up, you may as well buy a Commodore and get the larger engine. The fabric dash design (also used on the ashtrays on back of front seat) was a one year only affair, used only on the Pacemakers. I think that was love/hate for most people; mostly hate back then. Those are difficult to restore and most people just repaint their dashes or woodgrain them.

One additional item; I know it isn't right now, but the person restoring my car at the time insisted that the rear bumper was the one with the ridge on it. My car had the original smooth bumper with no ridge and he took that and replaced it with this other type. I should have listened to my inner Hudson voice saying no, that doesn't seem right. Anyway, what cars were those bumpers with the ridge used on? Or were those an aftermarket bumper? They fit exactly as the regular bumper.

faustmb

The ridge rear bumper was later, 51 I think. I have two that were stripped off parts cars, my 50 has the original smooth bumper.

53jetman

@DocHuber - Outside window opening trim (reveal moldings) were standard on all step-down Hudsons. The difference on the DeLuxe was the chrome frame of the front door wing assy, and if the car was a sedan most had the chrome opening rear quarter window assy also. Headliners were the same on both 500 and 50A. The DeLuxe had the three spoke steering wheel with just a horn button. But as the above bulletin states, you could order the larger "Commodore" steering wheel.
As far as I can remember, we used the same radio in all cars, and by the way we installed the center roof mounted antena on all units. The bumper with the ridge didn't come along until late 1952. I think they went to a lighter gauge metal and added the ridge for strength.

Tallent R

As I recall headliners were all mohair in any Hudson except the Hollywood .Its liner being vinyl and in 54 it could be had in other Hudsons too. I have a 54 Hornet with one in it. Also you could have a leather headliner if you ordered it . There is one here localy with one and was that way from new,
Roger

53jetman

Roger - As I recall, you could order leather interior in any Hudson, though it was not the same design. Each series had a specific leather trim design and color availability. I was not aware that one could order only the leather headliner, that just doesn't sound right to me. Cars with the leather option would have had a leather headliner, but I cannot find in any of the bulletins I have on file where just the headliner option could be ordered.

Tallent R

I guess I should have elaborated more . That car with the leather headliner is a full leather interior. Sorry about that
Roger

DocHubler

I guess the trim on the regular pacemaker vent window (outside) was painted black, but they had the reveal moldings otherwise.

Trust me, a radio from a senior car does not fit in the radio area in a Pacemaker. They are a slightly smaller unit, but look the same out front.

All Pacemaker sedans had fixed rear quarter windows. I doubt you could special order that change.

DocHubler

I guess the trim on the regular pacemaker vent window (outside) was painted black, but they had the reveal moldings otherwise.

Trust me, a radio from a senior car does not fit in the radio area in a Pacemaker. They are a slightly smaller unit, but look the same out front.

All Pacemaker sedans had fixed rear quarter windows. I doubt you could special order that change.

cpr3333

Thanks for the info. I knew someone would have the answer.

DocHubler

OK, so now I'm going to recant on the radio. I think there is only one type of 1950 radio listed in the 48-54 master parts catalog. Now I remember that I had a 49 radio that I had fixed and was trying to install and it will not fit! There isn't enough room between dash and heater box (close though). If you have to take the floor pan out of the Pacemaker to service the tranny, you have to remove the heater. There just isn't enough room to get the floorboard out otherwise. SWB was very tight engine/tranny fit to the body compared to Supers and Commodores.

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