ClassicCar

Some Freds and maybe other dollar stores. Good luck, Bob

Brownie,

I'm a chemist and you are spreading some misinformation about chemicals. Acetone does not cause cancer and has never been found to do so. It's a very important industrial chemical and is used in many products that people use today. The US is the largest producer of this chemical. It's actually a very simple 3 carbon molecule, and is quite flammable -- its primary hazard. And essexcoupe3131 is right that it is used in nail polish remover.

One the other hand, TCE (Trichloroethylene, a chlorinated compound) is a carcinogenic compound. TCE is a feedstock chemical to make refrigerants like HFC 134a. Now that's kind of important for folks that live in the warmer southern climate! Used properly, it can make very important products for us. Hopefully the days of dumping chemicals like this into our environment are over, but it has been found that it requires constant vigilance to prevent those irresponsible actions by a few that leaves an expensive and damaging legacy to our environment and health.

MEK, or methyethylketone, is a class of compounds known as ketones, as is acetone. It is highly flammable also, but is used as a solvent for inks in dry erase markers, something you are probably familiar with, including the odor caused by that chemical. MEK, or butanone as it is known, upon further study, was removed from the list of hazardous air pollutants by the EPA and is regulated as a VOC, volatile organic compound.

All of these chemicals are still produced today and used for various purposes. A good general place to look up info about these chemicals is on Wikipedia. It is not the best source, nor is everything entirely accurate at all times, but it is a good place for the non-chemist to start.

As car guys, chemicals are very important in this hobby. From the chemistry caused by modern fuels with ethanol (and all the attendant problems with that one), to the paints and products we use to restore and preserve the cars with. Modern paints are excellent compared to what was used just 30 years ago, but they are very expensive. Part of that cost has been the process of getting the lead removed from pigments in the paint, and development of ever better plastic coatings (paint, clear coats) for our vehicles to make them look beautiful and remain durable for a long time. Also, the chemistry has been developed to reduce drastically solvents or reducers used in the painting process to keep emission of volatile organic chemicals low to prevent air pollution, primarily in the form of smog. Thankfully our Hudsons are made with good steel from the 30s-50s. Why people like to talk about the "tin" worm really makes no sense if you think about it; tin is relatively stable to oxidation, and therefore is used to form a water oxidation protective coating on cans of food, used for food preservation (hence the word tins or tin cans evolved). The other major use for it tin is in solder. Actually, there is another plastic coating on the inside of food cans that is now commonly used, and it may even have some health issues as scientists have looked into the issue and developed better means of analysis of materials that can leach from the plastic coating.

Someone else that knows a lot about these topics would be Dennis Gage from My Classic Car -- the guy with the extreme handlebar mustache. He's a PhD chemist, as I am. We both are graduates of the University of Idaho. He used to work at Proctor and Gamble before he went full time into his current car activities. i met him once in the 80s when he was out on a recruiting mission.

A final plea: tell your congressman and senators to support basic scientific research. They probably will say they do, but there is far too little fundamental research supported in this country, and it comes out of the discretionary budgets (which are facing drastic cuts). Consider more investment in science and technology for our country. The Return on Investment has always been very positive. We are living today on the achievements from the investments of decades ago; if we don't continue/increase those investments, we will almost certainly become a second rate player in the area of science and technology in the next 20-30 years. The security and general welfare/happiness of the country depends on continuing the high standards of the past in this area of endeavor. Also, far too many research dollars are squandered on administrative and management at all levels of this field, so we should demand more efficiencies out of that as well. Well, we should all try to get this message across to the government.

Brownie,

Cool place; been down to that area before, and knew a person working down there in the 90s (and maybe still). I'm sure you know a few things that the average scientist or engineer won't know with that kind of experience! I believe in working safe -- I certainly don't want to lose an eye, hand, or get cancer down the road just because of some laboratory work. But unfortunately an attitude of safety at any cost is really hurting this country from a productivity/competitive sense. We need and expect technical folks to be able to accomplish their work safely and competently, and efficiently, but by the time they have 20 watchers per person, well the finances just don't hold up. Basic science has served this country well and we should invest in it much more heavily (and yes, we need the engineering support to follow to accomplish the great things we can do to improve our standard of living).

I worked with a person here that was a rocket engineer and he worked on von Braun's team for the first moon shot and also on the space shuttle in the early days. Truly one of the best people I've ever worked with and I think he is originally form Utah; it was a sad day for me when he retired. I once was doing something we called the "mega" prep in graduate school, large scale synthesis of some chemicals, and we were using 20 gallons of ethyl ether at a time, which is extremely flammable and of course has a narcotic effect. When I would visit with folks outside of the lab, they could smell it on my breath, and I could also smell/taste if for many days after, and yes, had major headaches from that. I also worked on fluorine chemistry for a while and used some of the fuels you would probably be familiar with at your company such as NF3O and N2F2 (realize you worked with solid rocket boosters, but these materials had a history going back some ways). Just a scent of an organic and Boom! I know some folks that worked with Rocketdyne before they had the big explosion that killed 1 or 2 people about 10-12 years ago. I think in general that most people are too detached from all the products that they use and the associated risks/consequences. If you want a risk free world, it will have to wait until heaven; it seems that many in government think if we spend enough, we'll get it here and now. It is a complicated issue, for sure in which we just don't have the right balance currently in my view.

For me, I'm not sure if I'll be working at my current job much longer; not by my own choice. The government is politically impotent, and maybe not even solvent for much longer, They are laying off a lot of technical folks (and others to be sure); we started sliding down the cliff some time ago. It will be a sad day when we fall behind technically, but maybe that has to happen for the great majority of people in this country to understand what is at stake. I have trained some young researchers in my day, and believe we need to do more, but on the other hand, where are the jobs for these folks in the service economy of the US these days? I haven't been doing laboratory research for several years now, but have been working on training customs and border police at home and abroad on WMD counterproliferation with focus on radiation equipment for detection of illicit materials and also chemical weapons. Even though I'm not a great mechanic, I do enjoy Hudsons and old cars in general -- fun hobby with great folks!

Wow, this topic covered a lot of ground. I would enjoy meeting you all at a national or regional meet too continue the discussion. I guess I think our political processes, with all its flaws is still the best in the world, but its a little like an old Hudson's wiring system. All the money and lobbyists are short-circuiting our representative democracy. We need some repair and overhaul.