ClassicCar

50C8DAN

Any one have a good idea of the price range for a stock Twin H intake?

Thanks

russmaas

Intake with no carbs or exhaust about $75 to $125

Hudzilla

Dan, Intake alone? Complete setup with linkage? Reproduction twin H aluminum intake?

1049superg

I bought a Twin H intake manifold recently for $65.00

50C8DAN

I have a nice one, just the manifold, no carbs, or other parts. I am selling and looking to see what they are brining.

Thanks for the inputs.

Tallent R

keep in mind you are talking to Hudson folks here - not ebay sellers . Dont be surprised to see some clown wanting $800.00 for one on Ebay ,
Roger

RL Chilton

Dan-

I bought one from Stu Coleman not too long ago for $100, used, but in good shape. I think Russ M. is about right, above.

SuperDave

I'll have a Twin H intake and exhaust at Pigeon Forge. The intake has been cleaned and the expansion plugs replace. It's, painted red. The exhaust has had a stress crack properly brazed many years ago and is not visible and should last for many years. It has been painted with high temp "cast" paint to prevent rust but will burn off in use. Heat riser is good and functioning properly. Has the original correct intake mounting studs in place. I haven't set a price yet. I now have only one Hudson engine (my last) and it's an 8..

1049superg

Am I to understand from SuperDave's comment that the exhaust manifold for a Twin H setup is different than the exhaust manifold for a single carb.?

Oldfarmer1947gmailcom

Hudson used several methods to match a 1951-56 Hudson 6 cylinder exhaust manifold to a Twin H intake manifold. Initial "kits" provided installation instructions which instructed the installer to drill two holes in the existing exhaust manifold and to then drive two heat tubes through the manifold. These tubes provided heat to the choke mechanisms of the twin WA-1 Carbs. The second method and later "kit" included the intake and exhaust manifolds with aforementioned modification already installed. Last but not least, Hudson began to sell all the pieces and they could be individually procured. The Hudson Master parts catalog lists both exhaust manifolds. One manifold was available for the single carb, Item H4-1 P/ N 303263 and another for the twin carb set up, Item H4-1 307091. Both appear on page 74 of that manual. The difference, the heat tubes.
Answer you may be looking for, Yes there are two separate manifolds. Can you use either with a twin H intake manifold, yes again? With or without the modifications, they both bolt together and to the engine block.

1049superg

I've heard from numerous sources that the exhaust manifold for the Twin H is the same as the single carb. Thanks for pointing out the modifications, whether factory or done in shop, to obtain a Twin H exhaust manifold.

r2hud308

Be carefull,most TH manofolds are broken inside where you cant see. Flip the manny upside down and pour water in the exhaust chamber and watch it pour out the intake ports. Thanks to the early technology of the heat riser. The flap on the riser sticks shut,then all the heat goes into the intake and they crack internally.A Hudson member from Texas tested 10 mannys,9 were busted. If ya find a good 1 you might consider a block off plate tween the mannys and remove the stinkin heat riser

1049superg

The exhaust manifold heat riser was removed at some point from my '53 Super Wasp I purchased this year at Kalamazoo. Also, I noticed, when doing a lub job underneath the car, that one of the circular casting plugs under the left side of the Twin H manifold was broken away exposing the manifold ducting. I do have a spare Twin H manifold just in case and guess I'll be giving it the "water test" as suggested by r2hud308.

Dan

walts garage-53 · walts garage-53 November 2012 Posts: 1,488Platinum Member

The heat riser is the problem with all exhaust manifolds. REMOVE IT. You will never know it's missing. Todays gas is made to burn HOT, so no need to preheat the intake manifold. Driving my car 500 miles a day when going cross country, outside temp above 95, and never have a problem with vapor lock, reason no heat riser. Walt.

SuperDave

Dan, To answer your original question. I just sold a rebuilt set. Intake blasted (leak checked) and new plugs in the holes, exhaust had a rebuilt heat riser, painted and ready for another 100,000 miles for $240.00 at Pigeon forge. If the heat riser is kept in working order it helps the driveability. like any other mechanical device. It must be maintained.

50C8DAN

Thanks for everyone's input on this. I sold it for $90 because the guy's manifold was rotted out and his car was not going anywhere until it was replace. It was just blasted without the balance tube or exhaust adapter. I was happy to get it to him and he is happy his Hornet is back on the road. Sometimes it is just good to help out without getting hung up on how much you get for something.

super651

Dan,You got that right and in this Hudson World of ours it is just good to help one another at times. Rudy

L Hudson

I have been looking for a twin-h for the 202. I have not had any luck on finding one as of yet. I picked up an alum. head from Dave. If anyone out there has one please let me know. Rudy: Mys son Mark Hudson(Hudsonator) said to say Hi.

super651

Say Hi to him for me also,Did he install the Supercharger on the 308 yet? Pal Rudy

L Hudson

No he hasn't. But I really have my eye on it now. I am working on a Jet and have decided to stay with the 202. I think a breath of fresh air would do this engine some good. It has a lot of limitations and would benefit greatly from a super or a turbo. I have pics of your blue Jet and one of Casper also. Mark said Casper was turboed. If you have any insight into this 202 I would appreciate any thing you have to offer. L Hud

super651

L Hud The 202 has some very weak points,and one of them is the headgasket.A local Hudson race driver bored one out to .020 or .030 and installed a 3/4 regrind cam,install the 2-carb set up with a set of Home Made Headers and was running a 4 speed Hydra trans. He could not keep from blowing the gasket between the cylinders. ( the block is to thin to began with)
It ran very good while the gasket lasted but that was not to long.
If you leave the bore stock and not run over3-5 lbs of boost ?????
The 3/4 cam made a big improvement as did the Headers.
I am not much help on this one,does any one out there know of any other Mods that can be done with much help??? Rudy

L Hudson

I'll PM you Rudy. We may get kicked on this thread. Thanks. L Hud

Browniepetersen

I just bought a 54 Hornet Super Club Coupe that has the single carb on it. I guess I will be looking for a Twin H setup. I had one on my 52 but did not have one on my 50. Since I am old and do not care much about speed I am wondering why bother? Do I really need one?

lostmind

Brownie, I had a 52 Hornet that came with the 2 barrell. I switched to a Twin H setup and noticed there is twice the carburetor problems.
Nothing else to notice.I suppose if you're going flat out racing you will get a top speed improvemant.
Lots of Wow factor at the car shows .

Browniepetersen

My 52 was a race car (I actually would take it out to the salt flats) but I always thought that the engine work was what made it go fast--not sure how much the Twin H had to do with it? Here is a photo when we had it out on tour up in Wyoming.

lostmind

Nice!

Tallent R

If I recal the factory claimed It added 10hp but they always liked to under state horsepower,
Roger

dieseleasynetcouk

Apologies on a slight hi-jack of the thread, but it 'is' about a Hudson Twin-H 1953 :)

I'm over in CA from the UK for a couple of weeks, working on a 53 Twin H, and having all sorts of issues with fitting a new exhaust (Waldrons) to the beast.

Our friend Tim who owns the vehicle bought a spare manifold set as the one fitted had the hotspot badly burnt, so that one went away for welding and machining as did the second one.

Now we cannot get the stainless system from Waldron to fit, mainly due to the downpipe existing in the wrong place, so the resonator cannot be fitted.

The manifolds are both twin-H type, both appear to be for the 308 engine, one has its downpipe studs across the engine and the other has them set diagonally.

The downpipe pipe sizes were also different.

The parts book isn't that detailed, we know it's a 308 engine in a 7C chassis with Twin H on the trunk lid and those huge twin air cleaners.

I'll be going back to the UK on Wednesday next week, but would appreciate any thoughts on this problem.

If the pictures come up OK I'll post again with some more details and shots.

Thanks,

Peter

dieseleasynetcouk

Here are the two different downpipe arrangements, horizontally opposed studs are what we have on today, diagonally opposed are the larger downpipe size fitting.

The downpipe sizes were an issue in both cases, Waldrons supplied 2-1/4" pipe for the larger flange which wouldn't go into the manifold, we had to clean the casting out with a rotary grinding bit to make it fit properly. The other pipe I haven't measured, but we had a similar issue.

Peter

Ric West IN

The one shown in your first picture, casting # starting with 532........ is for the 1955-56
Hornets with the Nash body. The outlet is different from the stepdowns due to lack of space between the spring "tower". Bottom picture is of the 52-54 Hornet Twin H.

"Ric"

dieseleasynetcouk

Cheers, Ric, that's the sort of info we need!

Peter

Tallent R

You can spot the difference easily by the balance tube .The top one is internal (to save space ) the other is the older external mounted one,
Roger

dieseleasynetcouk

Thanks for the extra info. We have had a response from Waldron Exhaust this morning, stating that their system info shows the exhaust running down the left side of the car, while ours is running down the right-hand (passenger) side.

"We would like to take a moment and clarify a point that has come to light.
It is our understanding (from the photos sent and from your conversations
with Jon) that the exhaust system is running down the right side of this
1953 Hornet. Our records show the stock system to run down the left side of
the vehicle and that is what our systems are patterned to fit. "

What does everyone else have?

Current position is that we are going to modify both front pipes by cutting slots in the tube and bending where necessary, then locking the bend changes by screwing strips of steel across the gaps and then sending both pipes back to Waldron.

My concern is that somehow we have a 'bitza' car that is not correct for its year or build. It happens, but would be a real PITA if that were the case.

I did a quick print out of the exhaust system picture and pages 74 to 78 of the parts catalogue (catalog) but as I said before, info is pretty skimpy in there and it doesn't really define what we should have.

Does anyone have a picture of the underside of the car?

Thanks again, very much appreciate the responses.

Peter

Ric West IN

All Hudsons from the early 30's onward have exhaust going down the right side. Waldron is messed up. ( My bad experience is from 30 years ago! :)

Ric"

Tallent R

Yes ,exhaust on right side of engine if 6 or 8 cylinder. Not sure of the V-8 Hash maybe that's what they got it mixed up with ?
Roger

dieseleasynetcouk

Thanks again for the responses.

Had a trip out to SFO on Friday and a day out to the Antique Farm Equipment show at Tulare CA yesterday, but back on the job this morning :)

I have cut two opposing V's in the first of the downpipes and bent the pipe to where it needed to be. Not exact for obvious reasons, but I can now get the rest of the system installed with no real hangups that are obvious.

The pipe is pretty strong stuff, and probably won't need anything to stop the cut joints moving during posting back to Waldrons.

I've now got to swap manifolds and get the 55/56 one on, and see how the other downpipe and manifold look compared to the dimensions we took of the modified first one.

I've taken some pictures, I'll get the other one swapped and modified and then will post the pictures.

The Waldron product is nicely made and fits together well, the rest of the systems assembles correctly so far.

Peter

dieseleasynetcouk

Just as an aside, I found that taking the inner wing rear panel out gave a lot of room to get at the downpipe flange, especially when you have bolts instead of studs!

Peter

dieseleasynetcouk

Here are the two manifolds and downpipes on the garage floor, the original one has had the downpipe cut and bent, the 55/56 one is just about to go back on the car.

Getting pretty good at whipping these on and off the engine!

Due to the strength of the stainless tube, I had to cut much further into the tube than would have been the case for mild steel, but the first one was pretty easy, the second was a bit of a pain as it had bends in the 'wrong' place for what I needed to do.

Peter

TwinH

Peter, Seems to me that the pipe in your top pic "should" have been a 'plug and play' deal on the 53. Unless I'm missing something,shame on Waldrons...

dieseleasynetcouk

Yes, I agree, it really should have been a bolt-up job, but we are in touch with them and they are going to re-work the pipes to the new profiles.

Peter

dieseleasynetcouk

Back in the UK after a decent flight home, sad to leave Cupertino but work to do and we have an engine show in Holland next month, so it had to be.

The Hudson is completely missing its exhaust hangers, front middle and back, and while we have the parts book to show what 'was' there, we could do with more information, particularly for the rear mounting that supports the main silencer box.

If anyone has spare parts that they could sketch for us, that would be greatly appreciated, or if there is a repro source for parts, give us their details.

I updated Tim before we left so he has all the pictures and details of what I did on the Hudson and the Studebaker Commander.

My home email: diesel@easynet.co.uk
Our website: http://www.stationary-engine.co.uk

Thanks to all,

Peter

dieseleasynetcouk

Update on the downpipes, Tim has had them welded up at a place in San Jose, picking them up on Monday, $200 for the job. I'll get some pictures out of Tim of the pipes.

He's going to try them out asap to check on alignment, then we need the brackets/hangers to fit the system.

Any help on getting these parts would be very much appreciated.

Peter

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