ClassicCar

Kdancy

Okay-- I don't have any experience with the Hudson "splasher" engines. I am checking out and installing a 39 six cylinder into the 37 PU. If there is no oil pressure, how can I tell if the engine has got good bearings and such without tearing it down? It was rebuilt about 15 years ago.

:confused:

Sunset Classics

Assuming the "spasher' you are working on is the same as the Essex splasher, the simple answer is that you can't!!

You need to pull the sump & physically check the big end bearings & journals & then the fit using either the static technique (Plastigauge or similar) or Geoff Clark's (dymanic) preference in folding kitchen ali foil to required thickness & removing shims until the rod/piston just slowly falls from the horizontal on the DRY journal. Remove foil & close it up after ensuring the troughs are full of oil.

In a splasher engine the "oil pump" only moves oil from the lower sump up into the troughs that the splashers revolve in & the oil pressure (changes) shown on the gauge does not indicate bearing condition.

The crank needs to be removed to properly check the main bearings altho removing the main bearing caps will give you useful info.

Steve E

Good advice from Essex 28. As the oil pump only fills the troughs, it only operates at abouy n4 lbs psi! on these engines there is no correlation beyween oil pressure and bearing condition.

Uncle Josh

Good advice. Every time I get to the crank, I wonder if I can get away without pulling it. Several times I have either found a scored main, the babbit loose on half the bearing, or something, and I'm glad I did it. Worth it for the peace of mind.

Interestingly, I haven't found a bad rod bearing in a splasher yet. But at least I know they're good.

37 Terraplane#2 · 37 Terraplane#2 September 2010 Posts: 1,659Platinum Member

KERRY , the guys are right , lets hope it's OK . then just clean the pans good . and when you put them back on by all means heed the advice given so many times here . Pull the valve adjustment covers and squirt a bunch of oil on things . pour the fill oil in there or in the fuel pump mounting hole or distributor hole so it fills the top pan . If you do have to tear it down get some step by step advice from guys that have been there . And especially prior to any machine shop work !! Very minor things can cause failure . BUD

Kdancy

thanks!

What is the recommended oil to run in these with today's oil?

37 Terraplane#2 · 37 Terraplane#2 September 2010 Posts: 1,659Platinum Member

If the distributor is top mounted you will have to cut the firewall for clearance . OIL -- That allmost allways gets some hair raised on here . FACT IS- oil formulas are changeing constantly to meet Fed requirements , and so to stay on the safe side I think it best to use any quality brand oil and put in some zink addative . Now don't pay no mind to that "I've been useing such and such for umpteen years stuff" because as said things change and the oil companys won't tell you , don't want to find out the hard way . In Fl. you can use but don't really need multi viscosity . Stay away from oils with a big range like 10-40 , better to use like 20-30 or a straight 30 wgt. ----D A oil company in Indianaplis , Ind. is makeing an oil speciffically for the old engines, you can order direct from them . This is good to follow on ANY flat tappet engine regardless of year made , not just Hudson . Roller cams don't have a problem with the new oils . BUD

Steve E

Slasher six engines all had the dist down on the side of the block near the back of the block thru 39. In 1940 they moved it to the rear of the block and to the top of the engine.

Kdancy

The company I used to work for used DA oil for years in all the low boys and heavy equipment. Good stuff!

The distributor is on the side.

walts garage-53 · walts garage-53 September 2010 Posts: 1,470Platinum Member

Kdancy wrote:

Okay-- I don't have any experience with the Hudson "splasher" engines. I am checking out and installing a 39 six cylinder into the 37 PU. If there is no oil pressure, how can I tell if the engine has got good bearings and such without tearing it down? It was rebuilt about 15 years ago.

:confused:

Once the engine is in the car, drop the crankcase and clean it out good. Install a gasket on the bottom pan, then the top tray, then the second gasket, and make sure you remove all gaskets from every punched hole, especial the rear drain hole in the center of the rear main. Now pour 1 and 1/2 quarts of oil in the top tray, this is a must, install to engine. Fill the bottom pan with a good 10-30 oil, 5 quarts, I use Castrol. Now when you start the engine for the first time, if you do not hear any knocking sounds, you have all good bearings. If you hear a knocking sound and it goes away after a few seconds, the center main is starting to go. Walt.

Kdancy

walt's garage-53 wrote:

Once the engine is in the car, drop the crankcase and clean it out good. Install a gasket on the bottom pan, then the top tray, then the second gasket, and make sure you remove all gaskets from every punched hole, especial the rear drain hole in the center of the rear main. Now pour 1 and 1/2 quarts of oil in the top tray, this is a must, install to engine. Fill the bottom pan with a good 10-30 oil, 5 quarts, I use Castrol. Now when you start the engine for the first time, if you do not hear any knocking sounds, you have all good bearings. If you hear a knocking sound and it goes away after a few seconds, the center main is starting to go. Walt.

Thanks!!

Now to get the gaskets and print this thread out---

Kdancy

Here is an engine gasket set on Ebay by Best. On the list, which ones of these do I need ? I hate to buy a whole set for just a couple.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hudson-1937-47-175-212-Splasher-6-full-gasket-set-Best-/170425285754?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27ae237c7a

I know I need the oil pan gasket -- what others?

Sunset Classics

For gaskets go to

Andrew B55

For gasket and engine parts, go to Dale Cooper at http://www.hudsonmotorcarco.com/
He is in Ohio.

I'm an Aussie and have bought gaskets/parts from him a few times and he is good to deal with.

If the engine has not run for many many years or you suspect its history, while it is sitting on your bench it makes sense to check the bearings, valves, pistons, bores and rings. I'm doing this at the moment with a 212 and fortunately all is well except for the rings. Last thing you want to do is install the engine, fire it up and find serious blow back past the rings, oil/water coming out from the head gasket or whatever. The previous engine I checked had a con rod installed the wrong way round! True story; don't know if the person who did it got it to run like that, or maybe that's why the car became a parts car.

stev1955

Following this thread I've learned a lot I didn't know about these splasher engines. Mine is a 30 Essex 6cyl and I'm trying to figure out the lubrication path. There are three oil lines on the oil pump. One I can tell pulls from the sump. Another supplies oil to the timing chain. The third goes to a fitting on the block then on to the oil pressure gauge. How does oil get up to the valve springs and down to the troughs?
Steve

TwinH

Well,the line into the rear of the block goes really nowhere. Just dumps
oil that fills the rod troughs while the front one feeding the timing chain
also fills the rod troughs from the front. Everything else is just,well,splash.
I'll post up a couple of pics tonight. "The Ghoul" huh? Part of my misspent
youth too...I still blame him for all my car models that got blown up...

TwinH

AAaarrgghhh! All that time posting pics and descriptions. I hit submit and
everything disappeared...:angry:

stev1955

Thanks any way.

skipster

In the last 6 months ive pulled apart 4 212 motors,and agree with Walt,yet to find a bad rod journal,but most of the mains are borderline.Its been a huge learning curve,but very enjoyable.

Kdancy

Engine ID for the 37 --- supposed to be 39 engine--
side of the block has casting # 101636 and 152500
H
2
Also the bottom of the block after pan and inner pan are pulled, have the
numbers 580 and F280 stamped into the pan surface lip. What do those mean?

Park_W

Don't know about the F280, but the 580 is sort of a production serial number. You'll find that number on other components of the engine as well. I think they're even on the pistons, which is one way to tell if they're the originals. These numbers helped keep track of what pieces are for or from what engine.

Sunset Classics

Here is an e-mail I just received concerning re-babbitting the bearings--

Yes, you would need to ship me the entire short block for me to do the work. I would also need all the bolts/nuts/shims you have to make it all work. I can give it back to you ready for you to complete the assembly if you like.
On rebabbitting/align boring main or cam bearings my fee is $600.00 per set of bearings which means one cam bearing or an upper and lower main bearing. So, assuming 3 main bearings and 3 cam bearings@ $600.00 each would be $3,600.00 for those.
For rebabbitting the rods I charge $200.00 per rod complete and matched to your crank for a total of $1,200.00
I would charge $400.00 to regrind the crank for the above job.
All told you would need to send me the short block, a check for 5,200.00 and give me at least 2 months to finish it for you.
Shawn R. Aldrich
Aldrich Engine Rebuilding

maybe I should just put a later model six in!

Tallent R

Those all need to honed to fit after being pored. Quite a involved - labor intensive prosess i'm told. Not to many guys with the knowlage and equipment anymore to do it.
Roger

akcoop

Before you spend that kind of money, I would check out Paul's Rod and Bearing in Kansas City. You can find them on the web. You can send your bearing to them. Russ (current owner) did a great job on my bearings. I visited his shop and they are the real deal. $400 for mains, $800 for 6 rods for a total of $1200. I will have it line bored locally for $250. Not bad for a 1917 Hudson engine. Call them at 816-587-4747.

Tallent R

AAAhhh. . .There ya go . . that sounds a little better,
Roger

Kdancy

akcoop wrote:

Before you spend that kind of money, I would check out Paul's Rod and Bearing in Kansas City. You can find them on the web. You can send your bearing to them. Russ (current owner) did a great job on my bearings. I visited his shop and they are the real deal. $400 for mains, $800 for 6 rods for a total of $1200. I will have it line bored locally for $250. Not bad for a 1917 Hudson engine. Call them at 816-587-4747.

AK --- please expound on this for me. (I'll call Paul's on monday), being as this is something new to me, I get the crankshaft turned locally, then send the main bearing caps along with the rods out to them for new bearings, then when all is back, I take the block to the machine shop along with crankshaft to have line bored?

akcoop

My 1917 has bronze inserts for the main and rod bearings. First have the crankshaft ground. They will have the measurement for your mains and rods. Send Pauls Rod and Bearing your mains and rods (assuming inserts in yours as well). Paul's will pour the mains, then pour the rods and finish according to the rod measurements off your crankshaft. Make sure you have your shims (if yours has shims). Russ had also said that the babbitt material today is much better and you could almost replace the shim pack with a single shim if desired. You then have your local shop line bore the mains. You will probably also want to have your crank, rods/pistons, balanced as well. If I missed anything, someone else jump in. Here are my bearings reinstalled. I have not had them line bored.
[attachment=8527]1917bearing.jpg[/attachment]

SamJ

Here's an article from the July/August 2005 issue of the WTN...

[attachment=8528]Splasher Page 2 .jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=8529]Splasher Page 2 _2010-11-20.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=8530]Splasher Page 3 .jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=8531]Splasher Page 4.jpg[/attachment]

[attachment=8532]Splasher Page 5.jpg[/attachment]

SamJ

OOPs. Here's the first page.

[attachment=8533]Splasher first page.jpg[/attachment]

Kdancy

Thanks for the WTN article! I called and will have that back issue coming next week.
:cheer:

skipster

akcoop wrote:

Before you spend that kind of money, I would check out Paul's Rod and Bearing in Kansas City. You can find them on the web. You can send your bearing to them. Russ (current owner) did a great job on my bearings. I visited his shop and they are the real deal. $400 for mains, $800 for 6 rods for a total of $1200. I will have it line bored locally for $250. Not bad for a 1917 Hudson engine. Call them at 816-587-4747.

Terry Harkin at Harkin machine is highly reccomended and significantly cheaper.Nice guy too

Kdancy

skipster wrote:

akcoop wrote:

Before you spend that kind of money, I would check out Paul's Rod and Bearing in Kansas City. You can find them on the web. You can send your bearing to them. Russ (current owner) did a great job on my bearings. I visited his shop and they are the real deal. $400 for mains, $800 for 6 rods for a total of $1200. I will have it line bored locally for $250. Not bad for a 1917 Hudson engine. Call them at 816-587-4747.

Terry Harkin at Harkin machine is highly reccomended and significantly cheaper.Nice guy too

Russ at Paul's Rod and Bearings got in touch with me after I emailed several of these shops and this is his pricing--
85.00 per main x 3 mains= 255.00
85-110.00 for Rod bearings= 6 x 110.00 = 660.00 max
I could get it line bored locally. Had a good conversation with Russ about Babbitt quality and such. Says today's babbitt is a lot better quality than old time stuff.
So, I would pull the crank, have my guy check it to see if it needs turning, give Russ the journal specs and he pours the bearings, then have my guy line bore the block for bearing fit.
I forgot to ask about cam bearings - are these babbitt also?

Kdancy

akcoop wrote:

My 1917 has bronze inserts for the main and rod bearings. First have the crankshaft ground. They will have the measurement for your mains and rods. Send Pauls Rod and Bearing your mains and rods (assuming inserts in yours as well). Paul's will pour the mains, then pour the rods and finish according to the rod measurements off your crankshaft. Make sure you have your shims (if yours has shims). Russ had also said that the babbitt material today is much better and you could almost replace the shim pack with a single shim if desired. You then have your local shop line bore the mains. You will probably also want to have your crank, rods/pistons, balanced as well. If I missed anything, someone else jump in. Here are my bearings reinstalled. I have not had them line bored.
[attachment=8527]1917bearing.jpg[/attachment]

Let me make sure I understand this right --
I send out the complete rods with bearings and the main caps with bearings (1/2 of bearing is pulled from the engine block), or just the inserts that are in the rod and main caps?

akcoop

I just sent him the Main bronze inserts. He needs the entire rod because he will fit the rods with shims to bolt right to the crank. the Mains will be poured, machined and ready for line boreing.

Aaron

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