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pulling a airstream trailer with a hornet
  • duncan
    Posts: 403Gold Member
    I was wondering if there has been or is anybody pulling a 22-24 ft airstream travel trailer with a hornet. Does anybody have pictures of a hitch to install on a hornet. Strong enough to cary the trailer. Ray
  • 54SuperWasp54SuperWasp
    Posts: 520Gold Member
    Hi Ray, I think you will find all of your answers on this site:
    http://www.coasters2010.com/page1.php
    They are The traveling Coasters from Canada. Every 10 years ( but the next one will be, by exception after 7 years in 2017), these folks go from Newfounland to British Columbia or, for 2017, from BC to Newfoundland. The first one was 1967, the year of the famous Expo 67 in Montreal, Quebec, Canada to celebrate that event. The deal is, in 2017, if you live central like, Ontario or Quebec, you go with your car and trailer to British-Columbia, there, a group of 100 antique cars and trailers will cross Canada until they reach Newfoundland. And, from there, you go back home. You already live in Newfoundland? You must go for the start in BC and come back home after. This way, everybody do the same mileage. I met these guys in 2010 in Chambly, Qc when they were invited by our provincial club the VAQ. One of them ( 54 Mercury
    with a 52 trailer from New-Brunswick,Canada) was to his second tour and said that, if he was healthy enough, he would join the 2017 tour. What was interesting on his car, his traler hitch was connected to the rear axle instead of the frame or bumber. This would be the perfect guy to talk to. By the way, the 2017 event is already complete! There is a waiting list! Michel
    P.S. It takes 3 years to organise this event. Imagine, when you make a reservation of a ferry-boat in Newfoundland for 100 cars and trailers..
  • 54SuperWasp54SuperWasp
    Posts: 520Gold Member
    I'm lucky, I found the pictures about the event and the hitch. If I remember well, he would put his foot on the hitch, and could swing it up and down without any problem. Michel
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    Chambly 2010 ( Coasters) 027.JPG
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  • duncan
    Posts: 403Gold Member
    Thanks Michel For the pictures. Now if I could only find a hitch installed on a hornet for a pattern that would be great.I have a brother and nephews that are owsome welders. Thanks
    Hudsonly Ray
  • Lee ODellLee ODell
    Posts: 1,840Platinum Member
    Here is another picture. The airstream was pulled from California to the International meet at Detroint and back home by Jack Edmondson.
    Lee O'Dell
    1954 Hudson.jpg
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  • PaulButlerPaulButler
    Posts: 208Expert Adviser
    Great picture Lee.

    That's one on my bucket list : having an Airstream hitched to the back of my 112 and going off on a break somewhere.

    Not sure what the 112 would make of it and the top speed wouldn't be great but what a nice way to get around!
  • Park_WPark_W
    Posts: 2,052Platinum Member
    Ray, we pulled a 36' mobile home with our Hornet back in the fifties. Used a hitch that extended way under and attached to the rear axle housing, so no load at all on the chassis or springs. Only negative was that something causing trailer sway, such as a passing semi, would "steer" the rear axle a little, so one had to be on the alert for that. Email me and I can send you a sketch of the construction.
  • duncan
    Posts: 403Gold Member
    thanks everybody for the posts. I went to a airstream sales office and they told me that there is a hitch atatchment made to stop sway from wind. I want to restore a airstream in the 50s hopefully . Ray
  • duncan
    Posts: 403Gold Member
    Park I sent you a email Ray
  • hudsontechhudsontech
    Posts: 4,042Platinum Member
    PaulButler - I'm not sure a 112 would be able to tow a trailer - maybe a small trash trailer to the dump. That 175 cube engine is, at best, anemic just hauling the car. It wasn't one of Hudsons better ideas. You might not get it out of your driveway.
  • PaulButlerPaulButler
    Posts: 208Expert Adviser
    Alex ; I did say it was a "bucket list" wish :-)

    Yep I might have better luck getting the airstream to pull the car :-h
  • duncan
    Posts: 403Gold Member
    anybody with pictures of a hudson pulling a trailer would you please post them. Thanks Ray
  • hudsontechhudsontech
    Posts: 4,042Platinum Member
    PaulButler - I can't resist saying this, but I think if you check really really close you're gonna find your bucket's got a hole in it!!!!!!!!! :D

    Hudsonly
    Alex Burr
    Memphis, TN
  • hudsontechhudsontech
    Posts: 4,042Platinum Member
    My wife and I went on vacation, back in the late 60's, to Newfoundland. We spent an ejoyable week enjoying some really great scenery. When we got back to Channel-Port aux Basques to catch the ferry back to Nova Scotia we were informed we would be guests of Newfoundland for a while - the railroad which ran the ferry was on strike!!!!!!!!!! Try calling your military unit and telling them you need some extra leave because the ferry was on strike. My division officer, when he stopped laughing told me to get back when I could - and that was an excuse he'd never heard before.

    Hudsonly,
    Alex Burr
    Memphis, TN
  • Kevin C.Kevin C.
    Posts: 409Platinum Member
    Paul,

    Don't let Alex "rain on your parade"! LOL
    You might not get there quickly but what the heck!
    It also depends on how big the Airstream is.
    If you do try it you might want to upgrade the brakes. You can upgrade the front brakes by playing mix and match with Hornet front brake parts!
    We 112 guys gotta stick together!

    Kevin C.
  • EssexAdvEssexAdv
    Posts: 515Moderator
    OK, Here is one. I know for a fact, the late Jack Smith of Canada pulled a travel trailer... about 18 foot, to several National Meets with his bone stock 29 Hudson. He was in Detroit and reticently I heard he took it to Washington state. If a 29 H can pull a trailer half way across the US, why can't a Hornet pull one (or a 112 for that matter) on occasion

    Lew
  • Tallent RTallent R
    Posts: 1,575Platinum Member
    Have you ever seen the engine in a 29 Hudson ? ? .. .. .. Its big enough to run a half track or army tank.
    Roger
    Retired Tech.
  • RL ChiltonRL Chilton
    Posts: 3,458Platinum Member
    Most Hudsons would not have any problem pulling trailers. O.k., I'm sure there's a limit on weight, but most smallish travel-trailers should not be a problem. One thing Hudson's do not lack in is torque, which translates into pulling power. Gobs and gobs of torque, far exceeding the hp ratings. Hornets especially, will have no problem pulling a travel trailer. And, for the most part neither would many other models, perhaps, except the 175, which really was not Hudson's best effort.
  • lsfirthlsfirth
    Posts: 273Gold Member
    I would love to see the attachment sketch to the rear axle. There must be another attachment to the chassis somewhere either fwd or aft of the axle too. Seems to me that the loads transfered into the tongue on the trailer when hitting bumps in the road would be much higher.
    Pulling my '52 airstream with my '49 Brougham is on my bucket list too :-)
    Both are huge projects, so it'll be a number of years....
    This Hudson project is starting to scare the crud out of me!!!
  • EssexAdvEssexAdv
    Posts: 515Moderator
    From Alex Burr's Technical information

    1929 Hudson Engine Spec's
    Piston Displacement 288
    No. of Cylinders 6
    Type of Head F
    Cylinder Arrangement Vertical
    Cylinder head Detachable Bore
    3½” Cylinders cast En Bloc Stroke 5”
    Crankcase Separate
    Rated H.P. 29.4
    Upper half Aluminum
    Firing order 1-5-3-6-2-4

    288 CID, 29.4 HP. cool for it's day but not very powerful when compared to a Hornet.
    I love them though. I have put many a miles on a 29 H LWB Limo. Neat car.... I wish it were mine, but at least I got to drive it frequently, sadly though, not recently.

    Lew M
    1929_sedan_8x10.GIF
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  • Park_WPark_W
    Posts: 2,052Platinum Member
    Isfirth, imagine a long extension to the trailer tongue that would go all the way under the car and fasten under the center of the rear axle housing. That's basically how the one I had worked. Load on the axle was considerably reduced because of the long lever arm involved. Of course the main hitch bar had braces on it to keep the bar firmly in place laterally.
  • lsfirthlsfirth
    Posts: 273Gold Member
    Oh...I get it. So the ball was actually up near the axle instead of somewhere between the rear bumper and the front of the trailer as usual. Hmm....hitching/unhitching might be a challenge, but sounds like it would work. Still seems like with the rear end following every pothole in the road that the vertical accelerations (thus loads) would be high going into the tounge, but it evidently worked. Very interesting.....

    Lee
    This Hudson project is starting to scare the crud out of me!!!
  • Park_WPark_W
    Posts: 2,052Platinum Member
    Isfirth, the ball was in the normal location, just aft of the bumper. The rig is hard to visualize without a sketch, especially if one isn't familiar with the typical load equalizing hitch design, where the trailer tongue and the car's hitch assembly operate as a single, slightly springy structure. I'll try to work up and post a decent sketch.
  • duncan
    Posts: 403Gold Member
    Hi Park Where did the 2 horizontal bars conect too. Under the bumper at the bumper brackets for lateral control. Was the ball welded on the end of the 3 incn bar after it curved up behind the bumper. Did you have 6 volt brakes on your 36 ft trailer. I went the other afternoon and looked at a 24 ft airstream 1964 but was not for sale. Ray
  • Park_WPark_W
    Posts: 2,052Platinum Member
    Ray, the "horizontal bars" attached near the ends of the heavy plate under the differential and went to "ears" on the seide of the 3" main drawbar. As said earlier, there was no attachment to the bumper or frame, except for the little chain that supported the end of the drawbar when the hitch wasn't connected to the trailer. And yes, the ball was at the aft end of the main drawbar, mounted atop the fixture for the spring bars. And again, you've got to look at and understand a typical Reese or other brand "equalizing" hitch system to fully get how the spring bars work to create essentially a semi-rigid extension of the trailer's tongue.
  • 1951hornethardtop
    Posts: 270Expert Adviser
    I remember Jack bitching about being pick up for speeding in that 29 pulling a trailer. Going up the mountain at 70 MPH in a 55 MPH speed zone. The 112 with a trailer well----good luck. lol
  • lsfirthlsfirth
    Posts: 273Gold Member
    I completely understand how load leveler bars work.... but without a sketch I don't understand what the layout is.... all the talk about "horizontal bars", "bumper brakets", "ears on the side of the drawbar", etc are just confusing me. Does anyone have a picture or a diagram of this set up. Or a sketch would even be nice... I'm very intrested to understand how this set-up works. I feel like I'm being teased :-)

    Thanks,
    Lee
    This Hudson project is starting to scare the crud out of me!!!
  • Park_WPark_W
    Posts: 2,052Platinum Member
    Sorry, Lee, I can understand the problem. Drop me an email and I'll send you a copy of what I sketched for Ray. It's a bit too crude to post here on the Forum. Sure wish I'd have taken photos of the rig when we were using it back in '56-'58. Dang! That said, I think the cost of having a hitch like this fabricated might be prohibitive. hetpwald@comporium.net (drop the het)
  • lsfirthlsfirth
    Posts: 273Gold Member
    Hi Park_W....don't be ashamed of a sketch....just post it up!

    Thanks,
    Lee
    This Hudson project is starting to scare the crud out of me!!!
  • Park_WPark_W
    Posts: 2,052Platinum Member
    OK, OK ... geez! (LOL) Here's a sketch. I don't honestly recall if there were diagonal braces from the ends of the under-axle mount plate to somewhere on the drawbar. I think not. Were I fabricating a hitch like this, I'd terminate the drawbar with the standard 2" square Class III hitch socket, so I could just plug a standard equalizer type ball mount/spring bar setup into it. The hitch I had was made of really heavy stock, as it was rated for trailer tongue weights of 700 lbs. or so. One wouldn't have to use such heavy material for a lighter trailer.
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  • Tallent RTallent R
    Posts: 1,575Platinum Member
    Now whats so embarrasing about that Park ,thats a very nice drawing,
    Roger
    Retired Tech.
  • Park_WPark_W
    Posts: 2,052Platinum Member
    It's a second attempt ... you don't wanna see the first one!
  • Tallent RTallent R
    Posts: 1,575Platinum Member
    Oh , I see .. .. ..
    Retired Tech.
  • Park_WPark_W
    Posts: 2,052Platinum Member
    Now, I have to tell this really scary story: Making our first move with the trailer and the axle hitch, we'd traveled an entire day and into the night. At about 10 PM, in Atlanta somewhere, we somehow got off the truck route and I needed to reverse course. There was an empty supermarket parking area so I swung the Hornet in there and started a slow turnaround. There was a little strange noise from the rear, then a big "clunk." Egad, the trailer had separated! Stopping and inspecting, I saw what had actually happened --- the hitch assembly had separated from the car. Sounds like no really big deal, but my thoughts immediately went back to just a few minutes earlier when we'd been climbing a several block long hill there in the city. If that hitch would have separated then .... Yikes! OK, back to the hitch ... why had it come off? Contary to the depiction above, the two u-bolts, rather than going through holes in the heavy mount plate, actually straddled the plate and went through a strap-plate under the mount plate. With the day's driving, those u-bolts had stretched a little, enough that they simply worked their way off the end of the main mount plate (I noted that a few months later, ads for that hitch showed some little tabs at the end of the mount plate such that the u-bolts couldn't slide off the ends!). OK, so my hitch is on the ground, and it's 10:15 in January ... darker than a black hole. A police car came by to see what was going on and used its spotlight to let me see while getting everything disconnected. We lifted the hitch into the trunk and drove a couple of blocks to an all night gas station with a lift. They kindly let me put the Hornet in the air to reattach the hitch ... firmly!

    It would take another three pages to tell about the rest of the trip. This was just the more exciting part. The entire journey held a few more surprises and was a real test of our six-week old marriage!
  • duncan
    Posts: 403Gold Member
    Park please keep the story going.This is some of the stories that we need to have on here
    Stories of driving our Hudson's Adventures in a Hudson. Is the main mounting plate that bolts to bottom of diff supposed to by clamped tight or have a little play to move up and down. Ray
  • Park_WPark_W
    Posts: 2,052Platinum Member
    Ray, the main mount plate was clamped tight to the axle housing. I've drawn the drawbar bolting directly to the mount plate, but there may have been some arrangement where it could move vertically. I seem to remember that the "hitch ball end" of the drawbar would drop to the ground if it wasn't supported by the little chain from the bumper or by being hooked up to the trailer tongue.
  • Pacemaker500Pacemaker500
    Posts: 1,004Platinum Member
    Park, I saved a copy of the drawing. I have already showed to my brother who builds custom stuff for motorcycles. He told me he can have one nearly ready next time I come home.

    Wife would like to get a modern version of the old-style, "Canned Ham" camper after our military retirement. I shared that the Hudson can pull one and she got a sparkle in her eye.
  • Park_WPark_W
    Posts: 2,052Platinum Member
    PM500, are we acquainted? What's your job in the military? What branch?
    Former Lifer!
  • Pacemaker500Pacemaker500
    Posts: 1,004Platinum Member
    Park_W, We have never met but you have helped my get my '50 Pacemaker back on the road since I took possession in 2006 by providing a lot of information on this Forum.

    I did 15 years in the Army - got out in 95 with the Clinton reduction. My wife is also Army, Reserves mostly but got called up in 2003 and we stayed. She now faces Promotion or MRD.

    I spent all my time at Fort Ben Harrison, IN except when I left for training. With my wife's call, we have been to Ft. Leonard Wood, MO, a Reserve Unit in Johnstown, PA, "Over there", and currently at the Pentagon.

    My brother is going to modify the hitch so that it is more robust on the axel and stiffer. He is working seeing if he can incorporate square tube all way out like a receiver.
  • Park_WPark_W
    Posts: 2,052Platinum Member
    See private personal msg. On the hitch, it occurred to me that a better design would be a wishbone-like structurre so the two main legs would attach to the axle out very near to the springs, so as not to apply weight in the center of the axle housing and bend it, which happened on my '55 Chrysler. The single leg of the wishbone would then terminate in a Class III receptacle. This structure would make the drawbar assembly more stable laterally without requiring really heavy attachments as needed on the original long drawbar to the heavy main mount plate. The whole thing could be made lighter.
  • duncan
    Posts: 403Gold Member
    Hi Park Is the weight of the trailer sitting on the ball and axle hitch held up by the spring arms and chains. and does this take care of the trailer swinging back and forth causing sway and jacknife situations without the lateral bars near the diff. Are they also called stabilizer bars.When I used to farm there was times I forgot to pin the drawbar and when I started going down the road at full speed the impliment I was pulling would start to whip big time so need something to keep the axle hitch from doing that. Ray
  • Pacemaker500Pacemaker500
    Posts: 1,004Platinum Member
    I understand the idea and I will send it forth to my brother.
  • Park_WPark_W
    Posts: 2,052Platinum Member
    Ray, some of the equalizer hitch bars do have anti-sway features on them. I don't think mine had any.
  • BHLHH52BHLHH52
    Posts: 24Hitchhiker
    This is the 48 Commodore 8 that my brother-in law used in the 50s & 60s for his 2 horse trailer, usually with 2 horses in it. He went all over Utah with it. I have no idea as to the hitch set-up but do remember the springs clamped on the rear shocks. Its amazing what the old Hudsons use to do. BL
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  • lsfirthlsfirth
    Posts: 273Gold Member
    Hi Park,

    Yes, nice sketch.....I now understand how it functions - quite simple and ingenious actually. Keep in mind that the full weight of the tongue is still on the rear bumper with this design. But you have de-coupled the fore-aft loading (acceleration/deceleration) from the bumper to the very sturdy rear suspension. So I'd say this design gains you a little advantage in that not all the loads go through the bumper/rear-frame. But I would say that if the tongue weight was an issue to begin with, this design may not help much, but half the problem with the Hudsons is that there's just not much to attach a regular hitch to back there....so could be a big help in that regard! Very cool - and the stories...thanks for posting!!!

    Lee
    This Hudson project is starting to scare the crud out of me!!!
  • Park_WPark_W
    Posts: 2,052Platinum Member
    Isfirth, there is NO weight on the bumper because there's no attachment to the bumper. All the weight gloes onto the axle housing. The little chain I drew is only used to hold the hitch up when there's no trailer attached.
  • lsfirthlsfirth
    Posts: 273Gold Member
    Hi Park....yes as mentioned in the PM, I think the only way there wouldn't be (or much less)load on the chain would be if there were load leveler bars which I didn't see in the sketch. Otherwise the moment arm would be too long coming clear back from the rear end. The leaf springs are not stiff enough to react that much torsion thereby causing an overly-soft attachment to the tongue. Or I could be totally missing something....which is very possible since I'm definitely not familiar with this type of hitch.

    Lee
    axle-hitch.jpg
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    This Hudson project is starting to scare the crud out of me!!!
  • Park_WPark_W
    Posts: 2,052Platinum Member
    Load on the chain? What chain? The one described is only used when there's no trailer connected, to support the end of the hitch. My text discusses that there must be load-leveler (equalizer) bars used. And the leaf springs are not involved ... weight goes directly on the axle.
  • Harry HillHarry Hill
    Posts: 1,303Platinum Member
    Park, I guess I'm missing what is supporting the trailer? Are the U-bolts clamped solidly to the axle?
  • Park_WPark_W
    Posts: 2,052Platinum Member
    Yes.
  • Sarah YoungSarah Young
    Posts: 511Platinum Member
    Here's a pic of the tow hitch Ken Cates installed on his '53 Wasp. The hitch is welded to the rear bumper center section and the backing is mounted with reinforcements behind the bumper bar. The reinforcements are also bolted to the rear of the unity body. I don't know how big of a trailer he towed with this setup, though.
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    Take a Ride in a Hudson Jet!