ClassicCar

Does any one know what to do about some play in the center pin in the steering of my 49 coupe. I just took the front end of my car apart including the motor and noticed some slop on the pin. I think now would be the time to fix it/

51hornetA

Check out Ken's site below. If you click on restoration Aids and scroll down you will see a help article on removing the play.

http://members.aol.com/stepdown53/STEPDOWNRESTORATIONAIDS.html

frankmn

i was told that the pin very seldom wears but the bearings do.

Hudzilla

Frank, the OEM number on those bearings is B-1612 made by Torrington. Hudson used two.

ok its just that when I turn the steering wheel I see some sloppy movement in the pin could be a worn bearing then?

Hudzilla

Could be. You also have two bearings in the steering box.Torrington B-2016.

super-six

I would replace the pin also, since you will have it apart. Mine was worn badly, probably from lack of grease.

frankmn

isn't that pin hard to replace?

Geoff C., N.Z.

You cna fit bronze bushings in here which gives a better bearing surface, and eliminates play. With roller bearings you will always have a certain amount of play, even when new. I fitted bronze bushings to my Jet 20 years ago and they are still without play. There was hardly any wear in the pin, so it was far easier to do this than replace with a new pin and bearings. You get much greater contact surface with bushings, but you must remember to lubricate them regularly and thoroughly.

Geoff.

Walt-LA

Randy Maas (21st Century Hudson) has a kit that includes shaft, tapered pin, bearings and jam nut for $ 60.00. Ken Amman may also have some or all of the parts. Have Randy's kit on my 51. Works fine. Walt

davidh

Yeah, the needle bearings would be a good start

super651

Geoff C., N.Z. wrote:

You cna fit bronze bushings in here which gives a better bearing surface, and eliminates play. With roller bearings you will always have a certain amount of play, even when new. I fitted bronze bushings to my Jet 20 years ago and they are still without play. There was hardly any wear in the pin, so it was far easier to do this than replace with a new pin and bearings. You get much greater contact surface with bushings, but you must remember to lubricate them regularly and thoroughly.

Geoff.

I also fill the space with bronze bearings and drill hole for grease fitting.

This will use the Full-Pin length and no loose fit. (will need to grease more often) Even when using a New Hudson pin and bearings there will be free-play. Thanks Rudy.

You are saying that some play in the center pin is normal?

Geoff C., N.Z.

Yes, with needle roller bearings. They steer better with bronze bushes.

Geoff.

super651

You are so right Geoff on the Bronze ones. Rudy.

courtesyman

I machine up a replacement bushing for the center stg - if your pin is good this should

work well. Rather than bronze I like to make it out of a plastic material (UHMW is the type) which has better sliding, wear and lube (or lack there-of). If you wonder about its durability and usefulness ask Press Kale. Cost is $25 + 5 ship. This includes a single bushing & new lock nut. Contact me for more info : Gert Kristiansen, SLC, UT. Email, drop HET : HETgtokristi@networld.com.

thats interesting about the bushings . So I can replace the bearings with either plastic or bronze bushings. There isn't that much play so I probably still have a good pin but won't know till I take it apart. Where can I get the rest of all the rubber parts for my front end?

hudsonguy

I've got my entire front suspension and steering assemblies out and disassembled, and am in the process of rebuilding them while I've got the engine out (also for rebuild). Reading this thread has prompted me to order a bronze 'grooved' bushing for my center steering pin, that I'll use to replace my needle bearings. My pin is still within a couple thousandths of spec., and I'm hoping this will tighten things up just a little more, because there is a small amount of play, even with new bearings. I got the grooved style bushing, which has sort of 'rifled' grooves in it to distribute the lubricant.

K-Gap has all of the rubber parts for the front end. Dale Cooper has all of the bushings, shafts, etc.

Hudsonly,

Doug

shadetree

courtesyman wrote:

I machine up a replacement bushing for the center stg - if your pin is good this should

work well. Rather than bronze I like to make it out of a plastic material (UHMW is the type) which has better sliding, wear and lube (or lack there-of). If you wonder about its durability and usefulness ask Press Kale. Cost is $25 + 5 ship. This includes a single bushing & new lock nut. Contact me for more info : Gert Kristiansen, SLC, UT. Email, drop HET : HETgtokristi@networld.com.

I BOUGHTTHIS PLASTIC BUSHING FROM GERT IN 1995 AND INSTALLED. IT WAS A NICE TIGHT PRESS FIT BY HAND, REMOVED THE GREASE FITTING AND PLUGGED AS PER INSTRUSTIONS AND IS WORKING VERY WELL TODAY, 10 1/2 YEARS AND 15000 MILES LATER. THE SHAFT AND ROLLER BEARINGS LOOKED GOOD BUT WAS LOOSE ENOUGHT TO CAUSE FRONT END TO SHIMMY AT TIMES. INSTALLATION WAS EASY, REMOVED THE ROLLER BEARINGS AND USED THE SAME SHAFT. IT WORKED FOR ME, THIS CAR IS AN ORIGINAL 51 HORNET WITH 65000 MILES , 50000 IN 1995. THIS FRONT END IS STILL GOOD AND TIGHT, ONLY THE CENTER POINT ROLLER BEARINGS WERE A PROBLEM. BEEN DRIVING THESE HUDSONS 60 YEARS AND STILL LOVE THEM. LIKE THE OLD COUNTRY SONG I WAS DRIVING THEM WHEN THEY WASN'T COOL BUT I KNEW THEY WERE.

Lots of good information here thanks everyone for your input....Jim

RG53Hornet

Anybody have access to an exploded view of the center pin that they could post in this thread? It would be helpful to those of us who have not pulled ours apart yet to see where all these parts would go.

herm

My $.02 - I have had good results with Gert's bushing on my Hudson. I do feel that the assembly needs lubrication. Not the bushing, but the thrust washers at each end of the bushing. I made a groove on the outside on the bushing from one end to the other with a hack saw and installed the bushing with the groove lined up with the grease fitting. Maybe just drilling a hole through the bushing at the grease fitting, allowing the grease to go to the thrust washers, would accomplish the same thing. Norm

courtesyman

That is a good point Norm - lube for the upper and lower washers. Rather than using a hacksaw cut, which will work fine, but rather primitive I have cut a groove in the outside bushing - vertically - and recommend keeping the grease zerk so washers can be lubed. I use an end mill for the cut - Press Kale suggested this to me. So the current bushings I make have this grease channel. The channel should just be assembled in line with the grease zerk hole. There seems to be no need for additional pin to bushing lube except upon assembly I recommend a thick silicone grease application. I wonder with the older non-grooved bushings if a lube spray can using a

straw/nozzle couldn't get a spray in there or perhaps your oil-pan leak like mine keeps the whole area lubed!? Gert.

herm

Another thought--at times the play at the end of the steering lever might not be between the bearings or bushing and the shaft, but could be end play between the lever and the thrust washers. If you are not replacing the pin this play can be eliminated by using round shims between the upper thrust washer and the pin bracket. I used automotive king pin washers from NAPA. Norm

I wonder if any one has step by step pictures of this or an exploded view that would help those of us who have never done this before.

Marker345

Can anyone provide me me with a part No. or other information for obtaining a bronze center point steering bushing? Thanks

russmaas

FYI. We also sell with the kit now the bottom washer that the pin sides thru. These also wear. We had these made with a rockwell hardness of 36.

russmaas

Picture below

Marker345

I'm thinking about a simple bronze bushing to slip in instead of rollers. Does anyone know of a part number or have the proper dimesions?

mars55

The March/April 2006 issue of White Triangle News has a step-by-step article on how to restore your centerpoint steering. Here is picture of the center steering bearings and shaft. The shaft is 1 inch in diameter.

hudsonguy

I used a Bronzed Sleeve Bearing when I rebuilt my front end several years ago (see earlier in this thread) that I bought from McMaster Carr. My steering is tighter now than it was with brand new roller bearings.

I did have to take a little off the length however. Off hand I can't remember exactly how much, but the stock bushing length of 2" was a little long. If you use this one, make sure to line up the hole in the center with the grease fitting when pressing it in.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#7965K31

Marker345

I got a McMaster bushing, installed it and center point freeplay is no longer an issue. The bushing need a little honing for a fit on the car's pin. It also needed to be shortened a bit. I put the bushing in the freezer for a while and then it pressed right into the bracket.

I feel better about putting a bronze bushing in than UHMW.

maasfh

Just finished checking the bronze bushing this weekend. One needs to cut the bushing down .080 and hone .0025. Works well.

Randy

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