ClassicCar

rambos_ride

I just recently bought a 1997 Chevrolet pickup for a spare vehicle.

Its been a little hard to start - but I attributed it to sitting for a couple of years.

Yesterday I decides to pressure wash the plants and moss (like I said it sat for a couple years) and to my demise..it wouldn't start afterwards.

We all know what these newer vehicles are like..1 wire..5 sensors..and no reported computer codes and nothing that looked remotely like a coil or distributor - at least that I recognized..think "LOOKING for HEI"

So, I checked google, and my books and couldnt find anything definitive on this particular truck..so I decided to call a guy on Craigslist that made housecalls.

He came over checked the distributor out and made sure it wasn't wet. We had Spark but the truck was not starting/firing correctly.

His immediate diagnosis was a faulty cam sensor..which is in the distributor, which requires removing the upper intake manifold to replace. 5 hours labor..couple hundred in parts.

So I paid him for an hour's time and said I'd get back to him later this week.

Now that I knew where the darn parts were located and what they looked like - On a hunch - I did some more Google searching on the symptoms and it pointed to a faulty ICM (Ignition Control Module)

120.00 @ NAPA lifetime guarantee and wallah..started right up.

So - was the guy shining me on or giving me an honest diagnosis based on his experience?

I tend to think he was just shining me on - as he didn't even suggest testing the ICM for replacement which any auto parts store can easily do (I now know)

Since the guy's rate was reasonable, and he showed up promptly on a Sunday - IF - it worked out I would have had lined him up some other work I'm not so inclined to tackle...but not now, I don't trust him.

Hudson308

Google his name/business and see if there's any online customer review info. BBB rating may/may not reveal something as well. I know how tough troubleshooting these EFI sensor-driven computer-controlled drive-by-wire plastic snake pits can be. ICM should have been one place to start. Problem is any misdiagnosis gets expensive, quick. I guess this is one reason I prefer working on 60-year old flatheads.

wano1949

Best investment you can make is a code reader, plug it in and it'll give you an error code you can look up or the more expensive ones show the code meaning. Also a service manual such as Haynes or Motors is a good tool as to location and replacing parts.

To work on anything now days you just about have to have one. The wing it, plug & try get's pretty tiring and expensive. Fast!

For any one to be working on a later model vehicle without one is hared to fathom. There are two sensors on the chevy for the cam/timing one at the crank front and one in the dist. (if I remember).

An auto parts store (Advance, Auto Zone) will read the code for you if you can get the vehicle there.

I'd find another mechanic.

Snailslayer

Glad you got your truck back on the road. Was he shining you? That i dont know but many times I find that the people I hire to help me often dont know more than i do with an hour of research (honest or not) So I make it a point to research first, then call. paperback books, online resources, Google and online forums are an unbelieveable resource for educating us on various topics and pointing us in a general direction to get problems fixed. Even if the answer is "take it to a dealership".

I couldnt imagine working on anything without a manual, Hudsons included. Think how many people still screw up the plug wires and firing order with book in hand even? Even with the shop manual, there are still many questions asked and answered here on the Hudson forums.

Trouble shooting new cars is a similar process to trouble shooting old ones. for us rookies, its identifing the symptoms, then looking in the manual to see what it says to do. Or ask an expert in that make model for thier idea as to a starting point or common issue to look for thats not in the manual per se. With Old cars we may be able to get to run with gas and spark, but can we get them to run well? New cars either run pretty well or not at all and are more tow truck prone.

Glad you got er fixed. The guy was nice enough to come out on a Sunday, on time and only take an hour of your time, which is rare for a craigslist ad!

BJ__TN

I'm not so sure I would question the guys honesty just yet. The fact that You had spark may have misled Him, into suspecting the cam sensor. It might have been an honest mistake. But then again, like You said, WHO can we trust today?
Bob Hickson

MikeWA

I used to buy and sell old tractors, and after one incident, never did anything (beyond changing fluids) without a manual.

Trying to remove a cover plate, removed a perfectly innocent looking bolt. As I was unscrewing it by hand, it suddenly shot out of my hand and across the shop. I found the bolt, but not the spring and check ball it was holding in. Had a heckuva time replacing them, because I didn't know what size they were.

Never again.

No longer buying and selling, but have a pretty good library of manuals! :lol:

ralpie

Very timely post!

Like others on this BBS I have multiple cars in fact multiple makes of cars. Today I reaffirmed something I have lived by for the past 20 or so years, if you can fix it take the time to do so yourself.

The focus of this diatribe is a story about my intention to find a repair shop I can use when I need to have work done which requires special tools or a vehicle lift. A place I would recommend to others and have my wife use in an emergency. So, on with the story, Our 1500 Suburban needed a pinion seal changed. Leaking for the past few months , I considered crawling under the car to change the seal , but thought this is a perfect opportunity to find a place to get work done that requires a lift. I called several local car folks I know to get a service establishment recommendation. After several conversations I settled on a local shop that does tires and mechanical work. I called the service manager and got a verbal estimate on the phone (first mistake) and set an appointment for today. We delivered our suburban to the shop this morning . I again asked the service manager if the cost to change the pinion seal was same as quoted over phone... yes Sir was the crisp response. I handed over the keys (Second mistake) and was told I would get a call when car was done. I got the call about 30 minutes later from the same service manager. He proceeded to tell me about all the OTHER things his mechanic had found bad. Irritated, I told the fellow I would be right over to check these problems out before authorizing any additional work to be done. Surprised by my response the fellow’s tone of voice became surly and he asked if I did not believe him. I told him I would be there and hung up. I arrived at the shop and the service manager took me into the service bay where my truck was on a lift with the drive shaft hanging and the mechanic sheepishly off in the far corner. The service manager pointed out THE PROBLEMS one by one. I will not enumerate the supposed problems, but none were in the category of failed item(s) or infact needed repairs. I proceeded to let the fellow know my request for the seal replacement was my way of checking out his shop and they had failed! I asked him to finish the seal replacement and return the vehicle to me. Red faced and angry, he stormed back to the front office. The mechanic nodded to me reaffirming he did not agree with the actions of the service manager.

About an hour later I picked up the vehicle. The service manager presented a bill which was $75 more than the verbal quote, with added shop materials etc. Not being a shrinking violet, I asked what became of the verbal quote, the response we only bill via establish labor rates and this job took longer because you came in to check out our recommendations! I thanked the fellow and assured him I will let others know about the treatment given. This lesson cost me $200.

So, as my VENT comes to an end. My bank account took a hit, I still have no place to recommend or have my wife use when I cannot do the work. I cannot excuse the behavior of BAIT and SWITCH or folks who hold themselves out as experts and are not. Nor will I put up with the folks who prey on the unknowing customers who perceive the information they are getting is the truth. This shop gets the added benefit of an additional hour of my time as I type a letter of complaint to my states attorney general's business fraud division.

Vent over... again thanks Rambo... if he did not shine you ... his cousins shined me today!!!!

Browniepetersen

I have a local shop that is about five miles from my home. I have been using them for over 40 years. I try to give them all the work that I do not want to do that includes any work on my wife's car (her car is our runnaround car so I learned a long time ago that if it does not run, the person doing the work on the car gets the heat). Over the years that I have been with them they have solved a bunch of the problems that I messed up on. I do a ton of stuff myself but I consider these folks just about as valuable as my family doctor.

lostmind

Brownie , I did this work for 47 years. I'm guessing he checked codes and had a cam sensor code. When you replaced the module you disconnected , disturbed, the wires. There probaly was a bad connection or a failure of the
module that went in such a way as setting the code.
That's my senario based on years of being a diagnostic tech
and being wrong a lot.The thing is , would he have charged you
if his diagnosis didn't fix the problem?
Or would he put in a module and say I was wrong?
MY input Roy

rambos_ride

lostmind wrote:

Brownie , I did this work for 47 years. I'm guessing he checked codes and had a cam sensor code. When you replaced the module you disconnected , disturbed, the wires. There probaly was a bad connection or a failure of the
module that went in such a way as setting the code.
That's my senario based on years of being a diagnostic tech
and being wrong a lot.The thing is , would he have charged you
if his diagnosis didn't fix the problem?
Or would he put in a module and say I was wrong?
MY input Roy

Nope - I ran the codes with my reader, the engine wasn't running so no codes were stored in the computer.

I did learn some things..so the experience wasnt a total loss..but, still irks me that a simple test on the ICM at Autozone would have revealed the faulty part, and this guy didn't even suggest a simple diagnostic and was all about charging me to tear apart the intake and replace the distributor.

Uncle Josh

On our trip cross-country a couple of years ago with our 21ft motor home on 98 Chev chassis w/350 it began skipping in the middle of IN and finally quit.

We had purchased Road and Tow from Good Sam so called them. Yup, Ron showed up with the 'Happy Hooker' and towed the MH backwards 40 mi up the turnpike to the largest RV shop in IN.

Had to stay at local motel 'cause couldn't stay on premises. Had to sweet talk the cats into a pet un-friendly motel.

Diagnosed as a bad module in the distributor. Fixed and with new plugs and wires, (MY choice), and several hundred lighter, we were on the road again. 40 mi later, late Friday of course it died. RV dealer gone home.

Called local Chevy dealer..nope didn't want to deal with a motor home, recommended a road service which showed up in half an hour. Diagnosed a bad Crank Sensor in 2 min, ordered one and installed it in 5 min after waiting an hour for it.

I suspect the crank sensor was going in the first place and the new module gave it some new life until it crapped out completely. I think the RV dealer should have known enough to replace both.

I've changed my insurance to Allstate Road Service. They could have fixed both on the road, saved a tow, which the Ins covered, a harried ride with 'Ron' in the Detroit-powered Happy Hooker up the interstate passing everyting on the road with our MH and cats behind, a lost day, and a motel bill.

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