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In this Discussion
- 46HudsonPU September 2011
- lostmind September 2011
- Park_W September 2011
- RL Chilton September 2011
- RonS September 2011
- tigermoth September 2011
Fuel System Question(s) -
-
This pertains to my '46 Hudson Pickup:
I have the standard fuel system, with a slight 'twist' - in addition to the traditional fuel pump at the engine (non-vacuum assist) there is a 6v electric fuel pump, located at the rear of the truck (under the bed, on the frame, fairly close to the fuel tank. IMO, the electric fuel pump was added as a supplemental pump, sort of an insurance policy - just in case the mechanical pump failed (?).
All of this was installed prior to my owning the truck. Whoever installed the electric fuel pump also put in a series of hoses and shut-off valves to circumvent the electric pump (?).
I think these hoses and shut-off valves are unnecessary, done because the previous owner was concerned that if the electric pump failed, it would prevent the flow of gas by means of the conventional setup.
I am considering removing all this extra tubing & shut-off valves, making it a straight-thru run from the tank, thru the electric pump, mechanical pump, to the carb.
For those of you who have an electric fuel pump -
- Did you keep the mechanical pump?
- If so, did you take the precautions that I see in the fuel line on my PU?
- Is there any reason to do this?
- If the electric fuel pump fails, will it block the flow of gas being pumped by the mechanical fuel pump? -
I ran an electric pump inline,mounted between tank and mechanical pump.
Two reasons.First for vapor lock help,and also to fill carb up after
long periods of sitting.In my exsperience ,if the electric pump failed
(which it did) the mechanical pump still pulled fuel through the electric pump.
I had no bypass hook ups.
hope this helps.
Roy -
It depends on what type of electric pump was installed. Some are " free flowing" ie, when not in use gas can be drawn through by the mechanical pump, albeit with some very slight restiction. What type of E pump is on your truck?
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lostmind wrote:I ran an electric pump inline,mounted between tank and mechanical pump.
Two reasons.First for vapor lock help,and also to fill carb up after
long periods of sitting.In my exsperience ,if the electric pump failed
(which it did) the mechanical pump still pulled fuel through the electric pump.
I had no bypass hook ups.
hope this helps.
Roy
Thanks Roy, Not sure why the electric pump is there, vapor lock may be the reason -
RonS wrote:It depends on what type of electric pump was installed. Some are " free flowing" ie, when not in use gas can be drawn through by the mechanical pump, albeit with some very slight restiction. What type of E pump is on your truck?
That's the concern. I am not sure - I will get up under there and see what I can find out what I can read off of the pump... -
i am curious about the shut off valves you have installed. the previous owner might have put a "G" shut off valve in the system for safety in the event of a crash. without one your electric pump will keep supplying a nice flow of fuel to your hot or burning engine compartment after a crash. you might want to leave that one in place. regards, tom
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`
Rick-
You need to keep in mind that some of the electric pumps are "flow-through" and some are not. The shut-off valves and by-pass lines that you see might be because that particular pump is not a flow-through style. Best to bench test it to determine if it is or is not a flow-through.
My guess is that it is not, and the elec. pump was used to "prime" the carb after a period of sitting idle, and/or as a back-up. Precisely the reasons I put them on my Hudsons.
Lastly, in answer to your last question, No. Malfunctioning mechanical pumps will still let fuel flow through them. -
Rick, the only electric pump I've found to restrict flow is the Carter rotary vane pump. Evidently the clearances between the rotor components and the housing are too small to allow the engine-driven pump to draw freely through it when it's not running.
-
tigermoth wrote:i am curious about the shut off valves you have installed. the previous owner might have put a "G" shut off valve in the system for safety in the event of a crash. without one your electric pump will keep supplying a nice flow of fuel to your hot or burning engine compartment after a crash. you might want to leave that one in place. regards, tom
Hi Tom,
I will be posting a picture in a few minutes. However, while I might keep a shutoff inline at certain point(s), I doubt I would be using them in the event of a crash or accident. They are under the bed on the inside of the frame, and would require me to crawl under the truck (gas tank above me), reach up and turn the shut-off valve - something I'm not likely to do in that situation (smile). -
Park W wrote:Rick, the only electric pump I've found to restrict flow is the Carter rotary vane pump. Evidently the clearances between the rotor components and the housing are too small to allow the engine-driven pump to draw freely through it when it's not running.
Have been doing 'Irene' clean-up today, so haven't had too much of a chance to respond, or go back and look at the setup.
This evening I took a few minutes from chopping limbs to grab my camera and take a photo or two. Hard to get a decent photo, space is pretty restricted.
[attachment=11759]SANY0476.JPG[/attachment]
I counted at least four (4) shut-off valves, for any 'contingency'...
The electric fuel pump is an AC EP11, #5656979 (6v).
If you look closely at the wood shown in the photos (bottom side of the bed, unfinished & rough), take note that it is old sawmill-cut planking. Not sure of the type of wood -
SANY0476.JPG800 x 600 - 30K -
Hi Russell,RL Chilton wrote:`
Rick-
You need to keep in mind that some of the electric pumps are "flow-through" and some are not. The shut-off valves and by-pass lines that you see might be because that particular pump is not a flow-through style. Best to bench test it to determine if it is or is not a flow-through.
My guess is that it is not, and the elec. pump was used to "prime" the carb after a period of sitting idle, and/or as a back-up. Precisely the reasons I put them on my Hudsons.
Lastly, in answer to your last question, No. Malfunctioning mechanical pumps will still let fuel flow through them.
With all the shut-off valves, routing, etc. (see picture in thread), I think its intent was to circumvent the electric fuel pump - but am not sure it is really necessary.
One shut-off is there to cut the flow of gas so the filter can be changed.
My next step in all of this will be to trace the electrical line back to where it gets its juice. I'll start the truck, then unhook the pump. If it continues to run after multiple tests, I don't think all that hardware will be necessary. -
Rick-
Park is right . . . I haven't found too many that aren't flow-through. The EP-11 is a flow-through. That set-up is pretty elaborate and from what I can see from the photos, is totally unnecessary. Running fuel through an electric pump with the elec. pump off, is not damaging to the unit. So, in essence, I can't imagine what purpose the by-pass accomplishes.
Unless there is something I don't see, eliminating the by-pass, but keeping the elec. pump as a back-up would be a plus. -
That looks like either an old style rotary or bellows, neither are free flow. the only type 6v that I am aware of is either a Airtex E-8011 or AC Delco EP-11. They look like a large brass fuel filter. I personally prefer the AC since, so far, no sealant has oozed out like the last two Airtex. You can buy the AC at Rock Auto Parts @ $45. You should use a filter between it and the gas tank. Then loose all that other stuff. Why a shut off? Could become a leak point.
-
Hi Ron,RonS wrote:That looks like either an old style rotary or bellows, neither are free flow. the only type 6v that I am aware of is either a Airtex E-8011 or AC Delco EP-11. They look like a large brass fuel filter. I personally prefer the AC since, so far, no sealant has oozed out like the last two Airtex. You can buy the AC at Rock Auto Parts @ $45. You should use a filter between it and the gas tank. Then loose all that other stuff. Why a shut off? Could become a leak point.
According to the tag, it is an AC EP11. My plan is to leave the inline gas filter in, and take the rest out. I might keep one shut-off, however I don't want to impede the gas flow too much... -
OK. That is the old style EP-11. The ones now designated EP-11 look like the Airtex E-8011. Frankly, I would'nt be surprised if Airtex makes 'em. Never the less, the quality seems better. Also they are solenoid type pumps, meaning gas will pass when not in operation. If you are going to use the original mechanical pump as a primary fuel delivery unit, these, IMO, are the way to go. I advise rebuilding the fuel pump if has not been done in the past 10 years. Recomendation: Then & Now automotive in Weymouth Ma. Cost for show quality $125. Just put the rebuilt AC/AJ on my Hornet and the car runs great now in over 95F.
