ClassicCar

Huddy42

Does anyone know what is going on with K-Gap, we have several guys here in Australia that have ordered and PAID for parts middle of last year, they will not reply to emails or phone calls, this is very hard for us being so far away,all these guys want is what they have paid for, is that too much to ask.??????

It certainly was a sad day when Press and Janet called it a day as we had nothing but 100% sevice from them, they would even send the parts and bill us later.

Would appreciate any help we can get from anyone.

Hudsonly Les P.

hudsontech

We beat this to death a while back. Some forum readers got rather nasty - I notice that a couple of them seem to have gone bye-bye (thank you, Lord!!!!)

In any event Huddy, I went to the source and emailed Kgap. Got an email back and I posted it on the forum.

I'd guess to find those old posts you'd have to run a search - unless Ted deleted them.

Not to denigrate (if that's the word) your post Huddy - this is the only post I'm going to put up. I'm not going to get beat over the head again.

Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN

Huddy42

Thanks Alex for your input, all we are asking is for some answers.It is so hard for us being on this side of the ditch.

forjack842

We may have beat this to death but we still have a continuing bad experience!

I propose this, we simply no longer pay in full in advance. We put a 10% deposit with payment on completion. I'm paying through Paypal and if an order that I verified was IN STOCK on day of order is not in my hands in 14 days I file a complaint and start the refund process.
As with KGAP I'm getting really tired of pay first and the hound these business week in week out to get a delivery.

I see a definate lack of motivation expressed after full payment is made. I've got $25 for running board rubber. I paid, they said will ship 3 days after pouring. Its been 3 weeks and I'm about 50 miles away. Emails go unanswered. The saga continues..................

hudsontech

That's an excellent idea, forjack.

Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN

didusay39

Hello,there soon may be another choice for Hudson reproduction parts. Might want to give him a call @ 1-719-475-8736. That is all.

Happyness is a warm Hudson. Start one,be happy!

Robert

53jetman

This other choice has been in tis game before, and wasn't much better at it than K-Gap is now! ! !

didusay39

Hello, No comment positive or negative in an open letter about another man or his business, but I believe that acts of choices in person or things fule improvment in behavior/product.That is all.

Robert

Happness is a warm Hudson,start one.
Be happy!

Huddy42

I wish that our guys were only out of pocket $25.00 , our guys are out hundreds of Dollars and then compare back our dollar to yours, so that equates to quite a lot of money, plus thay have probably paid freight on top of that.

forjack842

That was a typo - $425 for a set of running board rubber. I'm one click from submitting a Paypal refund claim.

twelch

forjack842 wrote:

That was a typo - $425 for a set of running board rubber. I'm one click from submitting a Paypal refund claim.

I used the PayPal refund automatically when there is no response and no product delivery in the stated time frame. PayPal will drop the vendor if they get X number of refund requests over a certain time frame. The method gets results. You have to be prepared not to get anything but your money back. Seems this vendor is not listening to their customers...too bad.

nhp1127

PayPal is great. I had bought a portable home A/C unit thru e-bay and had paid with paypal. The A/C was a piece of junk and I had alot of hassles with the vendor who sold it to me. As soon as I got PayPal involved, the vendor accomdated my needs.

denverslim

My days of using KGap are over. Three times I've tried using them and three times I have been burned and frustrated. They never seemed to want to respond to my emails or my voice mails so instead of making a big stink I just moved on and found parts elsewhere.
For some reason, the last time I stated this fact on this forum, in order to inform other unsuspecting Hudson owners, there was a nasty fight resulting in hurt feelings. I have absolutely nothing personal against the folks at Kgap. Indeed they seemed like nice, family folks. Unfortuntately, this doesn't make the business work...slim

J Lombard

Slim:

You said you moved on to other sources. Can you share your other soures for the same items that K-GAP offered

J

forjack842

All,
The Paypal dispute process is active 45 days from the Paypal transaction. Example, I paid $490 total from 2 29 hudson running board rubbers on Nov 4th. I was told 3 days cure and a few to ship. Its going on 20 days so I filed my non delivery dispute today. Paypal now will bug Kgap for their reason for the non delivery. If Paypal is not able to motivate appropiately, then I get notified to escalate for a refund. All this happens sometime before December 10th. If Kgap completes the transaction the case is closed and nothing further is done. Enough disputes/refunds and seller's Paypal account is suspended. It a motivational step in my book - like I take with any other seller on Ebay or ebid. Learned to use Paypal more and more often just for this relief.
Jack

Huddy42

That is were we differ, our guys paid via bank draft or similar, so that atill leaves us up the creek without a paddle so to speak.

skipster

never had to order anything off k-gap,but probably never will after reading huddy 42 s comments.To not respond to a customers emails and phone calls AFTER being paid is the height of rudeness.Im voting with my feet on this one.

forjack842

I hope you paid with a credit card. If so call your card service center and get them to reverse the transaction due to no delivery and no response. Visa/MC/AMX all have card member protection against fraud and non delivery of a paid/charged transaction falls into that catagory. they do all the investigation for you and maybe, just maybe KGap might get a cattle prod awaking when money starts disappearing out of their accounts. Usually does have that Oh Sh.. reaction!
Hope this helps,
Jack

Huddy42

Thanks for the info Jack, but, the guys here usually have to get a bank draft, I will check with them though and double check. Trouble is a couple of these guys orders go back early 2009 and wanted to pick up the goods at the National in Pontiac.

Lee ODell

We also have continuing good experiences.

In the last two weeks I have called K-Gap and placed two seperate orders with K-Gap and I have received both orders within a few days after placeing the order.

I'm just one of hundreds of satisfied customers. From my years of buying from K-Gap I have seen an improvement in service within the last year. Also, I have never not received and order. There have been a few orders that took along time to get them, but it was K-Gaps supplier slow responce to manufacture their orders.

I would recommened for anyone that has not used K-Gap and needs a quality Hudson part to give them chance. I for one will continue to order from them along with hundreds of other satisfied customers.

Lee O'Dell

Huddy42

Why is it then that we overseas buyers can not get the same treatment , as I stated in an earlier post, NEVER EVER had a problem with the Kale's, they were fantastic.

jaspurr

When are you people going to get it? K-Gap is not going to change. I've been burned more than once in the last two years and won't be doing any business with them again. Those of you who stand up for them must be on their "favorites" list, because I'm sure you are in the minority. How many of you read the e-mail in the discussion section that said we're going to change and we're so sorry we'll do better etc. etc. etc. and still no service.

It's not a hobby, it's a business and needs to be treated as one. If you can't do the job, for heavens sake sell the business and let someone do it who cares about doing a good job.

As for the other guy that might get back in the business, give him a chance, could things be any worse?

skipster

Its forgivable/understandable if they are having trouble with suppliers,family issues,snowstorms,martian invaders etc.But to not respond to emails and phone messages from people they have taken money from,particularily in a close knit community such as the HET folks,seems rude.I would be prepared to wait months for an order, IF the seller let me know what was going on and kept the lines of communication open.

54SuperWasp

Did not put an order yet but I would suggest that those lucky buyers who can have a good service and can get them on the phone line try to get the answer as: why our overseas HET friends and others from here don't get that good service and explain them that excellent service begins by one word: communication. People will forgive easily if they know what's going on. If it's such a big deal to write or phone everybody on the waiting list, I would suggest K-Gap people to open a new topic and daily, report what's going on. This way, it would not take time and everybody would know all at the same time what's going on. It may save their business and I hope it will. Michel. ( Lee, maybe you could be the best guy to reach them and get the answers). Please, read this as a suggestion and not a critic. ( My english is not perfect...)

Huddy42

The reason I am keeping this subject open is, I was the one in Australia that recommended these guys buy their parts from K-Gap so feel it is my duty to try and get their orders filled.

I have spoken to another member here in Australia that ordered a set or running board rubbers plus window vent rubbers for a friend had also PAID for them, in the end he gave up, the guy he ordered them for took over and rang and rang and pestered the tripe out of K-Gap to fulfil the order, the order finally arrived after 18 months , he had also rang the supplier to K-Gap on the running board rubbers to see if he could buy direct, the answer was you will have to go through K-Gap even though they had them in stock.The cost in phone calls to K-Gap was very expensive from Australia as well.

Sorry to keep harping on this, but, if I had not recomended these guys to K-Gap and they had not PAID for their goods, we would have given up.

forjack842

Well this is a new tidbit of information! When I ordered the 20 sedan running board rubbers I made vsure there was not a lead time. I was told they could ship 3 days after "he" poured them. From what you said they were supplied by someone else. I wonder whet is the truth.
what makes me even more pissed is I had another vender in Canada that could of done them for 500-550 in 21 days and I went with KGap thinking 7-14 days. I could kick myself! I just hope I get my money back via Paypal. For those Down Under please keep this thread going so we can help get your money back.

Now would it be possible for HET to take this Kgap Hudson source over and keep the profits for Het

twelch

Typically, we don't like to run someones business into the ground via the Forums. However, it appears K-Gap is willing to do just that, on their own. We will not interfere with these posts if everyone maintains the current tone. I know money and lost time is involved and that drives people up the wall. I count myself in that group, a promise is a promise and anything else is a phone call to explain.

If anyone feels that ClassicCar.com could be of help, I would be happy to call. However, I believe strongly in voting with your wallet and taking your business else where. This seems to be long running issue and I do not see a change in their future, unless its going out of business.

Huddy42

Thanks Ted,

I hope the tone of this at the moment stays that way as well, we definately need some one like K-Gap to help us with our retorations, we just feel as we are so far away this is probably the only medium we have to try and get our guys the goods, as nothing else has worked.

Huddy42

If the post yesterday by nhp1127 in regards to K-Gap not carrying sill plates any longer, I wonder if our guy who paid for his 14 months ago will get a refund. I don't think he should hold his breath. This is getting beyond a joke stage, please K-Gap stand up and be accountable for your actions, or lack thereof.

TOM-WA-

Can you please indicate the Phone Number and E mail address that you have been using
to contact K-Gap?

Huddy42

Am getting that info for you Tom, the guy is away at present but should be home tomorrow, if you can forward me your email address I think I should be able to send you copies of all the emails sent to K-Gap.

TOM-WA-

TOMBAR46@MSN.COM

forjack842

forjack842 wrote:

That was a typo - $425 for a set of running board rubber. I'm one click from submitting a Paypal refund claim.

I just escalated my claim to refund with Paypal! I'll take my $490+ somewhere else! Even a case of non delivery can get life out of KGap! Enough is Enough!

DocHornet

I've actually had a couple of successful experiences with K-Gap purchases recently. Ordered and received the parts in short order.

However, based on the content of this thread, and others I've read, I recently sent K-Gap an email offering to purchase their inventory and business. To his credit, I did get a phone call from the owner, Dany just a couple of days ago.

We had a long extended phone conversation about K-Gap and its customers.

I asked if he had been following the comments about K-GAP on the forum, and his surprising response was that he just didn't have time to look on the forum. We talked at length, and I expressed my opinion that any business with a website can't survive long if they don't respond immediately to emails, and if they can't have someone answer the phone during business hours (as most of you customers know, there is no such thing as calling and getting anything other than an answering machine on the phone there).

Sadly, Dany seemed to be more interested in explaining to me how he has another full time job, the wife has to care for an ailing relative, and that the "few" guys who posted unfavorable messages were the exception, and had all been satisfied.

I'm of the impression that these folks have honorable intentions, but just aren't set up to actually operate a business. I don't get the sense that they understand once a business reputation is tarnished, there's not much left.

It's a shame, as the products offered by K-Gap provide a very valuable service to the Hudson community. Unfortunately, unless they can change their attitude toward their customer service practice, I fear they won't last much longer.

forjack842

I'm having a difficult time accepting the complete lack of concern about his customer base in virtual revolt. I believe the issue is Dany has another revenue stream and KGap has lost its "appeal" to such an extent that in his mind its a pain in the rear. Ok I can understand that. My main concern is where is everyone's money? Alot of us have paid upfront and unless there's an immediate plan to either deliver or refund, then that approaches an intent to defraud. Especially if the money in not escrowed waiting payout as stuff arrives from vendors.
For those off shore and within the USA, I'd get ahold of the nearest authority and file whatever you feel appropiate. When the business owner has no concern for his customers, then its in the best interest of the customer to take action to recover their investment before the business folds completely.

I pray someone in HET or HET itself would be able to acquire KGAP and return it to an usuable enity.

Jack

Huddy42

Original Message

From: keith cubbin <kcubbin@optusnet.com.au>
To: kgaphet@aol.com
Sent: Thu, Jun 3, 2010 4:51 pm
Subject: Re: (no subject)

Hi Kaylene,

I received my White Triangle magazine yesterday read your letter regarding your supply of parts and requesting people to contact you if there was outstanding

parts. Listed below is the parts still outstanding, also I've asked you on two occasions when I might expect to see the Aluminum sill plates for my "49 convertible

and I haven't received a reply as yet. A settlement of my outstanding order would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

Keith

Original Message

From: keith cubbin

To: kgaphet@aol.com

Sent: Tuesday, September 14, 2010 2:41 PM

Subject: Re: (no subject)

Hi Danny and Kaylene,

Since my last Email dated 25th June regarding my outstanding parts, as of now I still haven't received the remaining items. Listed below is what is still outstanding. Could you please advise me when I might receive the balance of the order.

Quarter window Seal and Gasket Part # 139

"S" shape front door seal Part # 138

Window setting channel Part # 218

Roof antenna pad Part # 165

Oil pressure sending unit Part # 379

Regards

Keith

From: keith cubbin

To: Kgaphet@aol.com

Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 12:36 PM

Subject: Fw: (no subject)

Hi Danny and Kaylene,

I'd appreciate you advising me when I'm going to receive the balance of my order, which includes the sill plates for the convertible. I'm nearing the stage

where I'll be ready to start assembling the car, so this is crucial I hear back from you so I can plan the assembly.

Regards

Keith

51hornetA

I am surprised they didn't jump at a legitimate offer to buy the business. Doc Hornet you should keep up the pressure see if they will sell.

I think I am like a lot of our long time HET members who did business with the Kales and were used to that level of support from K-Gap so the customer service we now have is quite a shock to the system. I understand times are hard and this is secondary but the taking of peoples money up front and sending product is a business so it needs to be run as such with honoured time lines and delivery schedules.

I have gone from a buy over the phone customer to only buy in person at meets. After spending fruitless hours trying to communicate with K-Gap I only buy when I can see them in person and see the product in front of me. Makes it a real pain as I am in Canada so only get to purchase parts when I head to meets.

Jim Kilday

When properly operated and I stress that caveat, does or can this operation make a reasonable profit?

nhp1127

Jim Kilday wrote:

When properly operated and I stress that caveat, does or can this operation make a reasonable profit?

Sure, why not? Simple stuff. Answer the phone and e-mails and communicate the basics like- Take the order, then tell the customer how much it is with shipping and when it will be sent out. It's that simple.

denverslim

Can be even MORE profitable when you take the $$$ up front, then just don't follow up on the delivery....slim

boozer

It would be interesting to see a dollar figure, On ordered items, paid for in full,and not recieved yet. Plus how long they have waited for the items, with no response from K-Gap. I know not everyone who did this, is on this fourm, but it may shed some light onto how large this problem is, and why people are so upset.

RonS

Only two people can say for sure how profitable K-gap is,Press and Danny. Back some years ago Press( as I was told) ran off some red plastic emblems for the grill. Every one wanted one. Until the time came to actually cough up $40. After a run of 100, only sold 20-30. My figures are probably off a bit, but you get the idea. Still has to square up with the suppliers. How many square feet are required for operation and storage + taxes on that property? Records for IRS etc. Small runs from suppliers can be difficult to obtain in order to replenish stock etc. I don't wish to take sides, as I have not had a personal problem with Kgap,but it my be not as profitable as we Hudson BUFFS think. My question, though,is, if Danny is not making money why would he be against selling before revenues decline further. If it is profitable, acording to this forum, it can, and will, go "south" quickly reducing its value, and the price Danny can obtain for the sale. If he takes interest in better service once again today, it might take years to regain customer trust. A sale to a new operator seems logical, as Dan will have a new found cash flow that can be invested to earn interest/dividends that will require little time from the Spring family daily needs.

Huddy42

Ron S.
I appreciate your comments and can agree with lots of it,I myself have quite a lot of H.E.T. parts, I also appreciate the room etc to carry these items for folks who and when they want them, but, we get back to the fact of not suppying goods once paid for including freight and on top of that no communication from emails or phone calls.That in my opinion is common courtesy.

RonS

These threads have been going on for a few years, re Kgap. Since they are very much the only supplier for many HET parts this situation has become a grave concern to all Het enthusiasts. More seriously is the legal and ethical question that is presented here. The suggestion I made 18 months ago is that the National develop a position. I received less than favorable response from spokespersons. One reason Ford, Chevy Buick and others have held there value is the terrific after market parts supply. If this Het problem continues it won't be long before news will travel and values will deteriorate. That's becomes a problem for all of us. If no communication is being returned to buyers than action by the buyer must be innitiated and the National must be made aware. As for Danny, a decision needs to be made. That's what I was suggesting in the prior statement.

bob ward

Jim Kilday wrote:

When properly operated and I stress that caveat, does or can this operation make a reasonable profit?

I don't think, at least in the hands of Press and Janet, they made much of a dollar out of K-Gap, nor was it their intention to do so. K-Gap was something they could afford to do, it was a retirement hobby to help others in the Hudson community. I recall Press saying one time to the effect that as long as K-Gap made enough to cover their costs of attending and setting up at the National each year he was happy.

Given the costs involved in having small runs of items made, the small market for HET parts, and the amount people are willing to pay for those parts, I can't see that business model changing much, no matter who runs it.

But back to the focus of this thread, which is customer service.

forjack842

I see absolutely no reason that KGap must be Hudson only. A single point for many of the orphans' needs seems like a perfectly reasonable business model! Also the source for more than rubber parts. There's alot of parts that could just be gathered and made available as a kit or a set. A single point of stock makes the pain of searching of this and tha so much easier. It may not be Carquest ot Autozone but should provide a decent income.
Just my opinion.

forjack842

I am always very impressed with the quality of the WTN publication. I would guess this is a profitable venture otherwise it would not continue. The WTN is a HET Club enterprise. Why couldn't a KGAp buysiness plan also exist under HET club banner?

RonS

I believe the KFOC ( Kaiser Frazer Club) does some thing like that.

forjack842

One other thing is the lack of any followup from Dany after there was a set of lengthy discussions by a previous contributer to this thread. Since that member told Dany of the level of discontemt and dissatisfaction I would at least thought there would be a flurry of posts from Kgap with excuses and an offer to make amends. Nothing has come from Dany or Kgap; nothing. It sadly appears that any concern for peoples money in escrow, parts never delivered or guilt for a complete lack of attention given to resonable communications is nowhere to be found. I would at least hope a refund for undelivered parts would be the least that would be offered. I'm almost afraid all the prepaid money is gone. If so I hope the community will press for accountability and repayment via whatever tools are available. Admitting that the overhead of KGAP is more that he can handle, closing and settling all transactions then moving on, would be the responsible thing to do. What's happening now is approaching on intent to defraud.

Tallent R

Poster mentioned how nice the WTN was and assumed it must be profitable.
While it is the best club magazine you could ask for it is far from a profit maker.
As I recal from the club financial reports the dues are mostly eaten up by the cost of the magazine.
But it is a service to the members and is not supposed to make money .I cannot see a parts supply operation run by the club making money,
Roger

forjack842

All,
What I meant by the WTN example is that a club is a business, its has income, expenses, performs a service, and possibly delivers a product. I presented a possible expansion of the club's activities to include the management of or the direct sale of Hudson parts similar to what KGap has done in the past. I threw it on the table for discussion.

Jack

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