ClassicCar

Sarah Young

I'm a little disenchanted with my car. As soon as I've got one issue tackled, something else comes up. I can get it up and running for about 5 minutes and then it quietly just stops running. I've got it running solely off an electric fuel pump. Since switching it, I've been able to do a 10-mile trip uphill with no problems, so don't think it's the fuel pump. I had noticed, though, that it's been idling high when we start it. I'm guessing it's burning through a lot of gas as we have to let the garage clear for an hour after driving it and we too stink like gas and exhaust after being out and about in it. So, is the timing off? Or maybe something getting stuck open in the carb? Where do I begin?

Tallent R

Sarah I'm not an ace carb guy but sound like your's may need a little help. Has it sat too long without useage maybe? A few months with no fuel stabilizer in the tank will gum up the works. Has it been sitting ?
Roger

TOM-WA-

SARAH:

Give me a call when you are free...

TOM BARRETT
206 351-2649

nick s

sounds like you could have multiple issues but the running for 5 minutes seems like you have a temperaure related problem at the forefront. not much description to go on but it could be the electric pump. Especially if it seams like you ran out of gas. It may initially be pumping but a clogged filter or internal screen could cause it to overheat and shut down. be sure it still is pumping when the engine quits.

Geoff C., N.Z.

As usual, we need more information to be able to diagnose what is wrong. you say you "stink of gas". Is there raw fuel around the carburettor? Is the exhaust pumping out black smoke? It sounds to me like the float valve is not cutting the fuel off, but if this is so, the engine would not idle and would be very lumpy. More information please!

Edwardjohnsr

I had a similar problem with my Hornet. It turns out the fuel filter was getting clogged very quickly. It was rust flakes coming from the inside of the gas tank. Check your fuel filter and think about cleaning out the tank and using one of the lining materials to seal the inside.
Ed

RonS

If you are running on a direct electric fuel pump, Do you have a pressure regulator in line? What is the fuel pressure? With too much pressure the carb(s) can flood and stall. Most electrics will put out too much pressure unrestricted,@ 6-8 PSI,vs about 4 PSI as required.

RonS

Just thought of another thing, is there a restriction in the gas tank? Something can intermitantly can block the pickup tube. Try a clear filter before the electric pump to observe. Make sure the pump is actually pumping fuel, not just sounding as if it is.

walts garage-53 · walts garage-53 October 2010 Posts: 1,470Platinum Member

Sarah, you must put a fuel filter before the electric pump, keep an eye on it, and if it turns brown right away you have VARNISH in the tank. Must have a filter before the carburetor also. You should have the carburetor rebuilt by someone that has all the correct Carter repair tools, ask and demand for picture of their tools. The Carter tool set has about 100 items for all numbered Carter Carbs. Walt.

hudsonsplasher1

Sarah,
Another thought is check your battery. If you have a weak cell or an old battery, they can act just like your car running out of gas if you lose electrical power.
Just a thought!!
Gene.

Sarah Young

The gas in the tank is from early August. The last good run we had with the car was the last weekend in August, which was a 20-mile round trip. Otherwise, it's been around the block a time or two, no pun intended. I just pulled it out of the garage and let it run in the driveway until it died. There's no black smoke, but there's a lot of white exhaust. The engine is NOT idling as it should. You can hear it running at an elevated rpm setting with a "lump" to it every few seconds. When it dies, I can still hear the clicking of the fuel pump, but that doesn't mean it's pulling the fuel as Ron commented. When it quit running, I hopped out and took the Oil Bath Air Cleaner off and looked down inside the carburetor. I didn't see any "vapor" that would indicate a heat riser issue. I don't think there's a fuel fiter or pressure regulator before or after the electric pump. We did have some electrical issues not long ago with the car being completely dead, but after playing with the solenoid, there must have been a loose connection or bad ground, because there hasn't been any power loss since and the battery is maybe 6 months old.
[attachment=8397]280201ElectricFuelPump.jpg[/attachment]

davegnh1

Sarah,make sure your gas tank is vented. After it quits, carefullly, remove the gas cap. If there is vacuum there is a problem. Or just loosen the cap and see if you fix the stalling problem.

Tallent R

Sarah the photo you show is the same type pump my truck has. It is probably a little more preasure than you need true enough. The small round thing on the right is a filter screen for the pump. Not a real good filter though.
Your symtoms make me think of a fouled up and sticky carb. I have had the same problem when allowing a good carb to sit too long. I use some stuff made by Yamaha to clean out the old fuel residue. It only eats the residue and has never harmed one of my cars yet. Yamaha calls it ACC-CABC-LE-NR Yamaha Carburetor Cleaner. You can find it on e-bay or have a Yamaha place get it. It is simple to use with instructions on the bottle. Allthough I don't do it just like they recomend. I run it in through the fuel line. I first used it on a fresh pair on a Twin-H that had sat a couple years. Could not see rebuilding them again, my brother-in-law is a motorcylce nut and he gave me a bottle of this stuff. Work's wonder's ,
Roger

Steve E

Another thing I've seen happen, when these cars sit for years and water gets in the tank. After a good cleaning a lot of folks don't pay attention to the pickup tube in the tank, the one your fuel line hooks to, I've seen them rust off and not be able to pick up the bottom half of fuel in the tank! Small rust thru holes in it will cause the same problem. Something else to check if it goes that far.

Sarah Young

Would a bad sending unit cause the gas gauge to jump around? The needle raised to a full tank level the last time I filled it, but as it goes down the needle's all over the place.

Steve E

Possibly, another thing could be the float has a pinhole in it and is slowly filling up with gas.

Park_W

Sarah, yes .. a bad sending unit can make the gauge jump around. Regarding the bad running and your comment "... running at an elevated rpm setting with a "lump" to it every few seconds." That's a classic description of an engine running with an overly rich fuel mixture. Could be the aforementioned high fuel pump pressure causing some flooding, or maybe a sticking automatic choke valve (i.e., not opening as the engine warms up).

Sarah Young

[attachment=8439]HudsonJetSendingUnit.jpg[/attachment]

I removed the sending unit. I was expecting a cork float and was pleased to find a brass one. I submerged the float in a bowl of water and watched to see if bubbles came from it. Didn't see any, so don't think there's any pinholes in it. However, I learned that Ford part# COAZ-9202-B is a perfect match replacement for the brass float and available at any Ford parts store! I did discover a broken wire. The intermittance of the wire connection before it broke was probably what caused the needle to bounce around.

Steve E

Just FYI, C0AZ part number indicates that this float was first used on a full size 60 Ford.

Sarah Young

Took the fuel line off where it goes into the carburetor... looked like I had coffee grounds at the end of the fuel line!

Steve E

Sounds like you should get your fuel tank cleaned out and sealed, this could go on for a l o n g time otherwise.

Tallent R

Sometimes the steel lines rust also and need replacing. Just a thought,
Roger

Sarah Young

I've just installed a CLEAR inline fuel filter and will run with a Full Tank until I can do something with the tank. I also just pulled one of my spark plugs and don't think it could be a darker shade of black.
[attachment=8473]HudsonJetSparkPlugBLACK.jpg[/attachment]

hudsonsplasher1

Sarah Young wrote:

I've just installed a CLEAR inline fuel filter and will run with a Full Tank until I can do something with the tank. I also just pulled one of my spark plugs and don't think it could be a darker shade of black.
[attachment=8473]HudsonJetSparkPlugBLACK.jpg[/attachment]

Hi Sarah,
Unfortunately having a full tank of gas won't help. The gas in drawn from the bottom of the tank. Best advise I can give it to have have the tank cleaned and coated to stop the rust. Also, it looks like your engine is running a little rich. The color of your plug should be an ash gray.
Hope this helps. Gene.

walts garage-53 · walts garage-53 November 2010 Posts: 1,470Platinum Member

Do you have the correct spark plugs that your engine calls for? If yes, then you need the carburetor overhauled, or you do not have the correct carb. Walt.

Sarah Young

I've got a Carter WA-1 carb on it and have been running with Champion RH10C spark plugs.
[attachment=8483]CarterWA1Carb.jpg[/attachment]

Geoff C., N.Z.

Going by the colour of the plugs, the mixture is grossly over-rich. Have you checked that the auto-choke is working properly. It should just close when the throttle is kicked with engine cold, and gradually open to the fully open position within a few minutes.

walts garage-53 · walts garage-53 November 2010 Posts: 1,470Platinum Member

Does the carb have a brass tag on it, and if yes, what are the numbers? If no tag, then the meter rod has to be removed to see what the numbers are stamped on it and that will give the carb number. Walt.

Sarah Young

I'm becoming quite a regular at the parts store. I swapped out the spark plugs today. I also picked up some Gumout Carb & Choke Cleaner and sprayed down the outside of the carb, particularly doused the moving mechanisms of the choke linkage. It seems that the lever that kicks the arm that opens the choke was getting stuck. Once I pushed that lever up, it didn't want to come back down. After spraying it and working the part up and down, it seems to be moving alright again. Haven't tried to crank it up again yet.

hoosiercrosley

I am having almost the same problem with my Jet, It floods very easily when it is cold, I pump the gas a couple of times, And it cranks and cranks and cranks, then it will hit, then I crank and crank some more, then it starts, and it acts like it is loaded up until it is warm.:sick: Is it my choke or is the floats too high? Oh I forgot, I have dual carbs.

Barry smedley
53' Super Jet
and a bunch of Crosley's

BDN54

Hi Sarah-
Bruce Newell in Yakima here, (I sold you that car). A couple of things:

1. Carbs can be finicky; I had a problem with my '53 Stude truck once- it would not stay running. Took the carb off, took it apart and found a small "booger" in the jet. I cleaned it out with carb cleaner and it ran like a top!( I put in a kit too, as I had bought one to do this repair).
Besides my running it in the driveway, that Jet had very little use. The PO rebuilt the carb, but again, he did not drive the car. It may be worth while to remove the carb, disassemble and clean and put a kit into it.
Maybe one of the guys in the club over there can assist you-it's not that hard. Carbs seem to need occasional adjustments, and again the club guys can show you the correct procedures.

2. I had a problem with a '52 Stude car; it had rust in the fuel tank and the filter would plug up after 200 miles or so. I blew out the fuel line and installed a glass filter with removable element. This didn't get rid of the rust, but I could monitor the amount in the filter and clean as required.
When I had the Jet, I noticed some flaking gas tank sealer near the top of the filler pipe- I think the PO cleaned and sealed the tank. I do not know how good of a job he did; there may be some rust still.

Hope you get it figured out, that sweet Jet needs to be driven!

Sarah Young

I appreciate the extra past history on the Jet, Bruce! The filler pipe will need some TLC sooner than later, I agree.

I got her cranked up this afternoon. During the first 5 minutes, I had to pump the gas peddle a couple times to keep it running, but then it smoothed out. I was pretty stoked. Ran it for a good 10 minutes or so. It was pouring down rain, so we didn't leave the garage with it. Hopefully, we can do that in the morning. Will let you know how that goes!

Sarah Young

Well, I must have done something right! I put 4 miles on the Jet yesterday without it conking out. I'm not getting the exhaust fumes in the garage like I used to, either. Also, the gas gauge seems to be reading correctly and the needle isn't bouncing around anymore. However, I've discovered that Newton's Law for Hudsons means if you fix one thing, something else will break. I need to reseal the sending unit as it seems I've sprung a leak. Also, I just replaced the Speedometer Cable. So, I was excited to test out my work. I was pleased to see it showing me a reading, but as soon as I got up to 35mph the speedo cluster started making a noise, then the needle swung all the right, and then I heard a pop, and then the only sound I could hear from it was the cable spinning loosely in the cluster.

Tallent R

Sounds like the new cable may have broken. But maybee just needs to be oiled. If it broke for no aparent reason the old speedometer may be stiff. You'll find the mre you drive it the better it likes it.
Roger

Sarah Young

Sure enough, it twisted clean off right at the base. I got lucky and there was one wire thread hanging off the nub that was sitting in the back of the cluster, just enough to pull out with pliers. Is there a way to lubricate the speedometer itself? I don't really want to replace too many more of these cable while it's working it stiffness out.

[attachment=8519]Speedometer Cable.jpg[/attachment]

hoosiercrosley

Soak the cable and the cable insert in oil for a couple of days, I did it on my Jet and all of my Crosley's, never had one twist in 2 after that.

Barry Smedley
53' Super Jet
and a bunch of Crosley's

Tallent R

From what you said I gather it broke at the back of the spedometer. If you are wanting to try a little 3-n-1 oil right there on the bearing it might help. It seems to me there's a bit of a gap there where you can get some oil in the little brass bushing. Other than that you would need to send it to a speedometer guy to service it,
Roger

53jetman

hoosiercrosley wrote:

Soak the cable and the cable insert in oil for a couple of days, I did it on my Jet and all of my Crosley's, never had one twist in 2 after that.

I've used automatic trans. fluid for this purpose, and beleive it works better than engine oil - seems to last longer

Sarah Young

Just wanted to thank everyone who helped me troubleshoot. Too bad winter's coming, she definitely needs to see some open roads.

Yesterday, the Kindergarten classes had a 1950's day to celebrate their 50th day of school and that they are counting to 50 now. So, I volunteered to help out. I got to be a guest speaker and bring in a bunch of '50's memorabilia. The kids got to dress up and have a sock hop. I drove the girls to school in the Jet. The 4 kindergarten classes each got to take a group picture in front of the Jet. They thought it was neat, because it looks so different than the cars they're used to seeing. I also told a little fib and said it was Doc Hudson's little sister. They were VERY excited about that!

onerare39

That's great Sarah,

Did you hand them each a HET Membership Form?

Tallent R

Well Sarah That was'nt realy a fib, they are geneticly related. Even share a few exact parts,
Roger

RL Chilton

onerare39 wrote:

That's great Sarah,

Did you hand them each a HET Membership Form?

John Forkner for President!!

Steve E

Sarah, you might want to check and see if there's a place to lube the speedo. It would be at the top where the cable hooks on to the head. Somtimes there's a felt wick there and sometimes a screw to plug the hole. Sometimes there's nothing. If there's a wick sticking up a drop or two of oil on it will help, if a screw remove it and drop in a couple of drops of oil, if nothing's there, then you'll have to take the unit to a speedo shop and have them correct the problem. Good luck.

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