ClassicCar

I looked at the K-Gap web page and they only list a knob for a 1937 Hudson or Terraplane. Am I missing something or are they all the same?

As to creating the mold and such, I've seen that too but I'm not really looking to go into the repro business. I just need 4 pieces to put in my car. If I had a sample or detailed dimensions, I could probably model it in CAD and have four made in a day or two. The new stereolithography machines can produce parts in materials that you can use directly - no need to create a mold from a master.

Here's my first shot at a CAD model of the knob. I'm not really happy with the 'dimple' on top. It's hard to determine what it should look like from my parts.

The color is a best guess based on memory so I know it's off. I forgot to grab an escutcheon for a sample to match to.

[attachment=8516]knob2.JPG[/attachment]

Hudson308 wrote:

You're getting close, Chris. The "dimple" on the end of my knobs is just a gentle concave depression, maybe 1.5mm deep, extending to the edge about as far as your rendering.

Does this look better?

[attachment=8545]knob3.JPG[/attachment]

I can tweak the shape pretty much any way it needs to go - I just need details. Any pictures or measurements would help since I want to get them as close as possible.

I spoke to the guy that I would get to make these and he said they could probably be done for $5 to $10 each. Painting to match would be another $5 or so depending on quantity. If I wanted to color match the material, I would need a minimum of $1500 or so.

He thinks the paint would hold up but I'm a bit skeptical. I may have him make one up and paint it whatever color he has available to see how it looks and how durable it is before I take the next step.

Hudson308 wrote:

That's better. About that deep or a bit shallower, with the OD of the dish a bit closer to the knob edge. Sorry I've got no photos. My '49 is in "cold storage" offsite, and any spare window cranks are in a box out in the cooler. If no one posts a shot soon I'll put on the mukluks and go root around for ya. :unsure:

I'll try again, but actual measurments sure would help. Making changes on the CAD system is easy - making the right changes is the hard part.

onerare39 wrote:

Pictures of the knobs on my 50 Pacemaker 50A, hope that helps!
I think that they were made out of some kind of "green material" that wants to return to the earth.

John

Thanks. They look a lot like mine but in better condition. Still hard to see the actual shape of the dimple though. Do you think you could take some measurements and make a sketch for me?

As to the color, I'm assuming they should match the escutcheons. Is that correct? Also, were all 50 Pacemaker and Deluxe Pacemaker interiors the same color? Did other models share the same colors? In how many colors were knobs in this shape made? If it's only one or two colors and there is enough demand, I may just get the color matched material and run off a whole batch.

Hudson308 wrote:

Okay, CPR;

Here's what I've got. I found two slight variations in the contours of the '48-49 window crank knobs. One type has a dimple that looks alot like your first CAD attempt, and the other has a more gradual dish like I remembered. Maybe they were furnished to HMMC by different vendors. The type with the deeper dimple looks to have the same contours as the colored knobs you guys have posted. These measure 1.55" OD at the neck where it's attached, 1.87 at the widest part and have a 0.12" dish. The type with the shallow dimple measures 1.53" at the neck, 1.86" at the wide end and have a 0.09" dish. If you sliced them and looked at the profile, the deep-dimple type has a bigger edge radius at the dimple end. Both knob types measure 1.86" long.

Thanks, but are you sure on those numbers? They don't seem to match the picture with the ruler. I don't see anything that looks longer than an inch.

onerare39 wrote:

Here's the measurements I took. You would need compensate for shrinkage of the material also (I hate that!)

.49" OD at the neck where it's attached
.70" at the widest part
.07" dish
.70" long

Hope this helps,

John Forkner

Thanks. These numbers seem closer to what I'm seeing in the pictures. I'll have to check them against my CAD dimensions when I get to work tomorrow.

If I have time to play with it at lunch, I may have a new picture for everyone to review tomorrow. Hopefully, we'll be able to come up with something that's close enough that when seen in the car, no one will even question whether it's right or wrong.

On a similar note, my Pacemaker Deluxe has a blue/green knob for the lights and an ivory knob for the cigar lighter. Based on what I've seen in brochures and parts manuals, the lighter seems to be an option on the Pacemaker and maybe the Deluxe.

I'm assuming the ivory knob matches the Super or Commodore knob but I'm wondering if Hudson actually made a green knob lighter or if the option only came in one color. My father says that it is the lighter that was in the car when he bought it in '58. I guess my great uncle (the original owner) could have replaced it in the first eight years but it has me curious. Did Hudson make a lighter with a green knob for Pacemaker/Deluxe?

53jetman wrote:

I guess I'm basing my opinion on the size by the fact that the dash knobs and heater control knob on the Westhermaster under the dash and the handle for the cowl vent are all the same size as on the senior cars.

Good point on the sizes being the same for all of the other knobs, handles, etc.

One more piece of data to consider: According to the master parts catalog, the handles were specific to the 1950 Pacemaker and Pacemaker Deluxe (except the convertible to be absolutely accurate). They were not used on any other model or in any other year. The circular section at the end of the handle measures 7/16" at the bottom and 3/8" at the top where the knob is attached. In the pictures posted by Hudson308, the same area seems to be bigger in the picture with the ruler. (Hudson308 - Could we get you to do yet another measurement?)

If the handles are smaller in that area, would that imply that the knobs were smaller as well?

53jetman wrote:

I'm sure the knobs would have been of a hard material - softer knobs and buttons had not come into play in the automotive business at that time.

I tend to agree but what was different about this material that made it deteriorate so badly? Maybe it was a first attempt at a softer material that didn't work out. Pure speculation, but who knows?

53jetman wrote:

These knobs have been a problem for years. If you take a look at ten 1950 Pacemakers at any of our Hudson gatherings, I'll wager that 9 of them will have the window and door handles replaced - either by the Super Series or Commodore/Hornet Series handles.

That's why I'm asking all of these questions. If I make some, I'd like them to be as correct as possible, not just another incorrect variation.

RL Chilton wrote:

cpr-

I think you pretty much answered most of your own questions and I agree with you. There could have been vendor changes, which probably (and usually) warranted a new part # and the exact specifications of the knobs could have changed mid-model, mid-year without Hudson blinking an eye (it is a small thing, after all).

As far as shrinkage goes, look at steering wheels of the period. If left out to the elements, the shrinkage on the poured portion of the steering wheels will go from small crack to several inches. This "blank" section of the steering wheel did not crack and fall off, but actually shrunk away. You could easily lose 35-40% of the rim of the wheel due to shrinkage alone. This early-day "plastic" was actually poured resin, which was an improvement over the bake-lite material which can still be found in later step-downs on a few choice parts.

The major benefit was that the color was consistent all the way through, was manufactured quickly and eliminated the need for painting.

As far as an original "look" goes, that would be hard to say, but these knobs, when in good shape, and after years of being handled, are very shiny and smooth, due to being handled for extended periods of time. I'm sure that when new, the look was more of a matte finish.

Good point on the steering wheel. Mine has done exactly what you described.

As to the finish on the parts, I think I'll just try to match the escutcheons since that is what they are closest to.

While I'm on escutcheons, I modeled up one of those too just to see how it would look:

[attachment=8899]escutcheon.JPG[/attachment]