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In this Discussion
timing issues here too!!
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Hi guys,
My 49 commodore decided to disagree with me this morning!
A little back story: About a week ago my dad- very knowledgeable w/Hudsons adjusted the timing on my 49 using the '48-'49 manual. before that the car was timed alittle fast but the car was running well. After he set it to the book the timing seemed a bit slow..taking longer to warm up in the mornings and the GEN light sometimes lighting up. On my way home from taking the kids to school it started sputtering while in 2nd and 1st gear..I made it home where it promptly died. it has fuel..dad will ask. I did go thru some water ..i don't know if this is even a factor.
I'll let the car sit and dry out and try it again in the afternoon to see if there is any improvement. The drivetrain of this car is out of a 52 wasp..is the timing for a 49 the same as for a 52? Does anyonelse's vehicles seem to run better timed faster than what the manual calls for? I don't know how to fix it, in fact dad told me not to mess with it:p..the manual is at my parents house. Time to call my personal mechanic to fix it...DAD!! Why do cars breakdown when you HAVE to rely on them..hubby's car if down, he is using my buick and will be gone with it this weekend and I have been using the Hudson for a week now...sigh Rule of 3 strikes again!!!
Hudsonly,
Lisa G -
Hi C, Timing set a little fast will give a slight increase in power and sometimes better mileage as long as the engine doesn't detonate, [ping], it should be O.K. retarding it back to factory specs shouldn't cause to misfire tho, as far as the engine dying, did your dad reset the idle speed? As when you retard the timing the idle will slow down.
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I don't know if he did reset the idle speed, but it'll be later on in the afternoon when he gets home from work...hopefully we'll get it fixed.
lisa g -
cailynne wrote:I don't know if he did reset the idle speed, but it'll be later on in the afternoon when he gets home from work...hopefully we'll get it fixed.
lisa g
The timing specs/procedure should be the same for the '49 and '52 6 cylinder engines. You may be interested to know the '52 manual does not give a specific mark to set the timing... you just set it for the most advanced mark you can get away with before it starts to ping. With that said, I've had the best luck setting my '52 308 at the second or third mark "UDC" (before top dead center) using premium unleaded with a little CD2 added. My guess is that your dad either messed with the carb adjustments as has been suggested, or else he might have inadvertently left the vacuum hose to the distributor disconnected after setting the timing.
Would have loved to see the look on the other kid's faces when you dropped yours off for school!
Workin Stiff -
Did your dad make sure the vacuum advance was working? And did he disconnect it before setting the timing? Very important stuff!
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Lotsa folks get too wrapped up in the "propper"ignition setting. The Factory manuals will give you settings that guaranteed that the car would "run" in Denver, Key West and Anchorage. These setting written in 1930's 40's 50's is all OUT OF DATE. Not much is the same here in the 2010's . Fuel is VERY different. Also there are many different variables in play here.. Air density(altitude), humidity, input air temp., engine temp, fuel octane etc etc. , Sure you can use the book to get the car running, but... to get the optimum perfromance you must adjust using the simple "knock" test. Advance the timing until the engine knocks or pings on hard acceleration.then..retard the timing until it does not "ping'. That is the bottom line...Yes you may have to adjust float levels due to different fuel specific gravity, and change idle mixture screws to make the engine happy as well as idle speed settings. The modern cars with fuel injection and a computer do all that automatically. Our old carbureted machines are a set of compromises. Don't get annaly retentive about the numbers in your old shop manual.
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Engine starts to ping on a hard pull= floor the throttle in high gear at 10 MPH, engine should just barely ping.
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Steve E wrote:Engine starts to ping on a hard pull= floor the throttle in high gear at 10 MPH, engine should just barely ping.
Yeah, what he said! Workin Stiff -
Steve E wrote:Engine starts to ping on a hard pull= floor the throttle in high gear at 10 MPH, engine should just barely ping.
Is the 10 MPH rule the same for all gear ratios? There is a bigger engine load with 3.08 gears as compared with 4.56 or lower gear ratios at 10 MPH.
4.56 gear = 547 RPM at 10 MPH, with 28 inch tires
3.08 gear = 370 RPM at 10 MPH, with 28 inch tires
To make matters worse for some of us old cogger is: speaking for myself, I could not hear a ping if my life depended on it.
Has anyone tried adjusting the distributor to get highest engine vacuum reading at idle then back timeing a couple degrees and check if there is any ping at 10 MPH? Something more visable would be helpful to us hard of hearing. Maybe have to have a copilot with good ears along for the test drive.
Lee -
Lee O'Dell wrote:Is the 10 MPH rule the same for all gear ratios? There is a bigger engine load with 3.08 gears as compared with 4.56 or lower gear ratios at 10 MPH.
4.56 gear = 547 RPM at 10 MPH, with 28 inch tires
3.08 gear = 370 RPM at 10 MPH, with 28 inch tires
To make matters worse for some of us old cogger is: speaking for myself, I could not hear a ping if my life depended on it.
Has anyone tried adjusting the distributor to get highest engine vacuum reading at idle then back timeing a couple degrees and check if there is any ping at 10 MPH? Something more visable would be helpful to us hard of hearing. Maybe have to have a copilot with good ears along for the test drive.
Lee
I've heard a number of experienced mechanics say they've had great luck timing with a vacuum gauge, although I've never heard any of them say they tested the results using the "punch it at low RPM" test. A comparison would be interesting. The exact RPM isn't important, as this is kind of a subjective test anyway. You're just trying to apply a heavy load to the engine at WOT and low RPM's after it warms up. I've also accomplished the same thing by leaning over the fender and opening the throttle while a (trusted) friend applies the brakes of an automatic equipped vehicle.
Another thing that may have caused her problem is if the choke isn't opening all the way. Maybe her dad adjusted the thermal choke setting on the side of the carb.Workin Stiff -
I have always just set the dist.and carb to where it doesn't stumble when I rev it from Idle. Takes a little time and practice to learn to do it that way but it works for me. Do NOT!! stand in front of or behind the car when using this method..Gearshifts have been known to move by themselves once in a while.
Bob -
Dad came over today and adjusted the idle screws and got it running right...however the head gasket is blown. I have one being sent to me Monday. We both new that the car was going to need a new head gasket sooner or later. Gotta get it fixed especially if I have to use it as a daily driver.
Gunna have to invest in a spare set too!
Lisa G -
Sorry to hear about the head gasket leak. While you have the head off it mignt be a good time to do the head modification that was talked about recently on the forum.
Have a good day. Lee
