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In this Discussion
- 46HudsonPU December 2009
- 51hornetA December 2009
- 52 kahuna December 2009
- Aaron D. IL December 2009
- Browniepetersen December 2009
- DaveFury December 2009
- Geoff C., N.Z. December 2009
- hudnut1tmr December 2009
- Jon B December 2009
- oldhudsons December 2009
- rambos_ride December 2009
- RL Chilton December 2009
'Grapes of Wrath' Hudson - at BJ in Jan 2010
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The alleged 'Grapes of Wrath' Hudson is to be auctioned at BJ in Scottsdale, AZ.
I have SERIOUS doubts about this being 'the' vehicle used in that movie. WHY would anyone (at that time) go to the expense and trouble of converting that 'truck' back to a car? It isn't like it was 'special' back then, it was just another 14 year old 'truck'...
And, and those making the movie (in 1940) had no idea that it would be sought after - otherwise it would have been put aside. The actual truck was most likely turned into scrap metal during WWII.
Don't know HOW the 'owner' of this is managing to provide absolute proof of this - I would say that they cannot, and cannot imagine that the studio actually had the serial number listed for the truck.
Like the Tucker convertible, anything can be fabricated if you gather enough parts... :rolleyes:
http://www.barrett-jackson.com/application/onlinesubmission/lotdetails.aspx?ln=1250&aid=304&pop=0 -
Rick-
Everything you said is true, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. Trucks have not really become collectible till the last few decades. I had heard that there were actually two trucks that were used for the movie, I'm guessing for different shots. Perhaps, "stationary" and "moving", whereas the "moving is rigged with camera supports, etc. Just an educated guess, if in fact there were multiple vehicles used. -
Just doesn't make much sense. Something about this just doesn't ring true. The value in this vehicle lay in its starring role in the movie. If I had found it in a garage, along with its original body, I would have simply saved it "as-is" -- rot, rust, and all. Wouldn't have cost me a penny to do so (aside of storage costs). By turning it into a reproduction period race car you obiliterate its uniqueness.
For example, I know a fellow who now owns the mid-20's Cadillac touring car used in a famous episode of the "I Love Lucy" series. (The plot: Fred Mertz is charged with the responsibility of going out and buying a car for the Ricardo's and Mertzes to travel to California in, and he brings back this complete wreck of a car.) My friend Larry chose NOT to restore the car, and it looks exactly as it did on the Lucy show back in '55, dents-- complete with chipped paint, dents and stuffing coming out of the seat. Great fun to look at!
(Photo filched from International Movie Car Database) -
The car may soon have the provenance - "Sold by Barrett-Jackson as the 'Grapes of Wrath' car".
I wonder if BJ realizes that they may end up having 'egg on their face' (?) - if the seller cannot come up with some irrefutable documentation to prove their claim. -
Dave W.
What's life without a Hudson? -
Having read all the threads, past & present, I'd like to say, as one who lived in L. A. for over 30 years & knew men who kept "stables" of cars which they rented to the movies, that the studios SELDOM built or owned vehicles, but rented them, especially from a co. now out of business I believe, Pacific Auto Rentals.
There was, & probably still is, a whole bunch of people in the L.A. area who rent cars to the studios - Bill Albright did this on several occasions esp., noted the 2 stepdown convertibles, used in the sequel to "Chinatown" (can't remember it's name).
Some collectors, at that time myself, wouldn't rent to them because they would not take care of the cars during production + would do things to them, such as dull the paint & chrome with sprays, so wouldn't be too shiny, etc.
Pacific at one time had hundreds of vehicles & may well have been asked for some period truck & happened to have the old Hudson on hand. The Duesenberg used in "Some Like it Hot" was one of theirs so they even had "high end" classics.
Bottom line is I concur with "46's "alleged" remark. -
There were indeed two almost identicalHudsons used in the movie. However, on had no radiator badge, and one had a Ford V8 motor. At one point the driver (Henry Fonda) leans down and pushes a button, and the truck bursts into life! Hudsons had a foot pedal starter. However, the other car which has the original running gear is at one stage idling in low gear up through the camp. there is the unmistakeable "whine" of the gears, and a discernible loose connecting rod. My tuppence worht.If you're stuck in a hole, stop digging.
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DaveFury wrote:
Other than stating facts about the making of the movie & known information about Hudsons in general, IMO nothing in the thread above provides any proof that even a bolt, nut or washer on this car came from the Grapes of Wrath truck... -
IMHO this guy is completely FOS
"cost was too prohibitive" to restore to the movie condition? BS
There are no pictures presented, no documents - nothing that proves its the same car and the license plate could have been easily reproduced.
Barret Jackson has sunk to a new low to believe this outright lie.
If this was the true car, there would be much more proof and pictures posted of the car when it was "found"
What a pompous POS:mad: -
Well, I won't go into my opinions on the big auction chains here, which I assure you are far less than favorable. However, in the past, the auction owners have pulled many vehicles right before their auctions, due to conflicting documentation. This is just a smart and logical procedure, as their reputation and legal responsibilities are on the line. This is noted particularly on many high end cars, with notable "history" or racing lineage, etc. I feel pretty confident that if said car's documentation cannot be properly identified, then it would either be pulled from the auction, or included without any formal "history" attached to it.
All of this is interesting, nonetheless, and I'm curious as to how this particular car unfolds. -
Hmmm - Maybe ask BJ to post at least some of the documentation supporting the car as the 'Grapes of Wrath' truck (?)...
This might get some attention -
http://community.barrett-jackson.com/forums/post-1460.html -
Termites ate the metal? Am I missing something or just ignorant??
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I think he means the wooden body frame the aluminum was on. Seems to me it would have been easier to recreate that frame then create a new body like they did. And in my book who gives a crap that it was SUPPOSEDLY the Grapes of Wrath vehicle. Just sell it for what it is.www.hudsonmotorcar.org
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51hornetA wrote:I think he means the wooden body frame the aluminum was on. Seems to me it would have been easier to recreate that frame then create a new body like they did. And in my book who gives a crap that it was SUPPOSEDLY the Grapes of Wrath vehicle. Just sell it for what it is.
You know, I was kinda thinking the same thing. I've never really known anyone that said, "Man, I sure would like to find the truck that was in the Grapes of Wrath!". Or anyone that even thought that it was cool or something, which, by the way, it is not. I mean really, it's not like the "Topper" car or anything remotely close to it. Heck, I used to own the Cadillac that Willie Nelson used in Honeysuckle Rose (in which I was an extra). I ended up giving it away, eventually and the fact that it was a former movie car meant nearly nothing to anyone except as an interesting tidbit. -
RL Chilton wrote:
Even if it is 'the truck', in its current state it means nothing - at least to me. I just am not thrilled with someone attempting to make a claim such as this without any documentation to back it up. Obviously (at least to me) it is an attempt to increase its worth via the association with the movie...You know, I was kinda thinking the same thing. I've never really known anyone that said, "Man, I sure would like to find the truck that was in the Grapes of Wrath!". Or anyone that even thought that it was cool or something, which, by the way, it is not. I mean really, it's not like the "Topper" car or anything remotely close to it. Heck, I used to own the Cadillac that Willie Nelson used in Honeysuckle Rose (in which I was an extra). I ended up giving it away, eventually and the fact that it was a former movie car meant nearly nothing to anyone except as an interesting tidbit.
As far as appeal, there is none here, I wouldn't want it...
But, that having been said - it would be more like owning the Batmobile, rather than just some car that a star used in a movie to get from point 'A' to point 'B', i.e., the 'truck' itself was a focal point in the story... -
Rick-
I agree with you, they're fluffing it up to make more money, no doubt. And they need to back it up with documentation, as well. Additionally, I certainly understand the historical aspect, to some degree. But, to me personally, it's not worth any more than another '26 Hudson in the same condition, movie prowess or not. Let's face it, (assuming documentation proves it), the car was used in a movie. It's not like it was Jimmy Stewart's personal car, or was used to move FDR around (as in Presidential transportation).
Simple movie provenance is just not that big a deal, to me.
Now if Elvis had owned it . . . now THAT's different! LOL! -
RL Chilton wrote:
Tell me about it! I'd LOVE to have that DeTamaso Pantera that Elvis shot when it wouldn't start...Rick-
I agree with you, they're fluffing it up to make more money, no doubt. And they need to back it up with documentation, as well. Additionally, I certainly understand the historical aspect, to some degree. But, to me personally, it's not worth any more than another '26 Hudson in the same condition, movie prowess or not. Let's face it, (assuming documentation proves it), the car was used in a movie. It's not like it was Jimmy Stewart's personal car, or was used to move FDR around (as in Presidential transportation).
Simple movie provenance is just not that big a deal, to me.
Now if Elvis had owned it . . . now THAT's different! LOL! -
Only movie car I would want is Steve McQueens Mustang from Bullet but those two cars do not exist anymore. Or the 60's Batmobile. I would use the Batmobile as a daily driver and deploy the chute every time I stopped.www.hudsonmotorcar.org
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51hornetA wrote:
Don't forget to contact the "parachute pick-up service" that they had (it was in at least one scene in the series)... :rolleyes:Only movie car I would want is Steve McQueens Mustang from Bullet but those two cars do not exist anymore. Or the 60's Batmobile. I would use the Batmobile as a daily driver and deploy the chute every time I stopped.
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I'd much rather own the pink Hornet used in Porky's before I'd wanna own the Hudson used in Grapes of Wrath. LOL But what do I know about movie cars?
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Well, apparently BJ's is 'buying' the info that the seller is providing, and does not want to hear anything that constitutes doubt about this 'truck' either.
This is my only thread, and -
- My 'Warning Level' has gone up;
- I did not get any notice of any 'warning' or of the last two posts to that thread - although I am set up for immediate notice(s);
http://community.barrett-jackson.com/forums/post-1492.html
No biggie - I created the account just to post the 'doubt' of this being the 'Grapes of Wrath' truck anyway... :rolleyes: -
Let's see the documentation - The plate is clearly different and the fender magically got replaced while it sat in the barn for 69 years.... -
rambos_ride wrote:
It would be interesting to see how the owner explains this, but I don't think they want to hear any more from me...
Let's see the documentation - The plate is clearly different and the fender magically got replaced while it sat in the barn for 69 years.... -
BJ is in a business where public relations is one of their key selling points for their vehicles. The other being documation and facts. They most often package the paperwork better than they do the car. I guess I am supprised that they would be so to the point and punnishing with their responses. I would expect that they would invite you to come and look at the truck and check it out for yourself but I did not expect them to get personal and insulting. Not the best way to sell cars at auction.Brownie
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I like the BJ admin guys logic. You do not own it so you could not possible know anything about it. What crap. And how the hell does he know you are not a qualified Hudson historian.www.hudsonmotorcar.org
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up to this point I've been refraining from saying anything but think now I might say that for years I lived but a few blocks from the current owner of said "Grapes of Wrath" car who touted himself as a RR & Bentley expert but got a reputation as one who would, let us say, "create" cars to raise their value. I remember one such incident when one of his "creations" was hyped at an auction, sold, then truth came out he'd built something he said might have been, or was once built but no longer existed.
Oh well, anyone who doesn't adhere to the old caveat "let the buyer beware", is what we used to call a "fish" ergo deserve their fate, LOL! -
oldhudsons wrote:
I can understand that BJ's would not want to have anything posted anywhere on their website that would be considered negative toward them, their auction(s), or the sellers or bidders.up to this point I've been refraining from saying anything but think now I might say that for years I lived but a few blocks from the current owner of said "Grapes of Wrath" car who touted himself as a RR & Bentley expert but got a reputation as one who would, let us say, "create" cars to raise their value. I remember one such incident when one of his "creations" was hyped at an auction, sold, then truth came out he'd built something he said might have been, or was once built but no longer existed.
Oh well, anyone who doesn't adhere to the old caveat "let the buyer beware", is what we used to call a "fish" ergo deserve their fate, LOL!
With this unusual of a claim ('Grapes of Wrath' movie truck), one would think that BJ's would look at it with more of a critical eye...
Here is what I sent to BJ's forum admin in a PM - in response to what I feel is a biased post by them:
BTW - The thread on their forum has been closed.
It is there (and the link was previously referenced until my post was edited), for those that want to see it...
http://www.classiccar.com/forums/showthread.php?p=116636
The most positive evidence are Clips from the movie which show damage to the right-front fender, and pictures taken of the 'discovered' car as it was loaded onto a flatbed - which do not show that damage.
A minor point also - The license plate on the car is obviously not the license plate in the movie, it does not appear to be original - it is a reproduction.
The biggest question is WHY would a movie studio cut up and convert a car to a truck, use it in their movie, and then put the car body back to original, without any signs that it had ever been chopped up - just to store it? And, even then - they went to all that trouble and expense to restore the car completely, but didn't repair the engine?
http://www.oldcarsweekly.com/article/Grapes_of_Wrath_Hudson_part_of_film_history/
The honest answer is that they wouldn't... Look at the lines of the car in the pictures from 'Old Car Weekly', the running boards going all the way back to the rear fenders, etc., - this is not a car that has had any major modifications (of any sort)...
In any event, that old chopped-up car was nothing special in 1940, just another 11 year old car. The Biddle & Smart body wasn't that unique either, that's who Hudson had making many of their cars back in the day...
It's all there for those that want to research it with an objective eye. I truly wanted to believe that this 'was it' - but the more that it was looked into (by multiple Hudson enthusiasts), the more obvious it became that it was not 'that truck'... Same year, possibly even the same model, but not 'the truck'.
... -
Browniepetersen wrote:BJ is in a business where public relations is one of their key selling points for their vehicles. The other being documation and facts. They most often package the paperwork better than they do the car. I guess I am supprised that they would be so to the point and punnishing with their responses. I would expect that they would invite you to come and look at the truck and check it out for yourself but I did not expect them to get personal and insulting. Not the best way to sell cars at auction.
I stand by what I said earlier in this thread, in that MOST big auction outfit's reputation stands on proper documentation and historical claims associated with the automobiles on the block. However, BJ, which is the absolute worst of the lot, chooses instead to shush the naysayers, in light of more profits. Oldhudsons quote, "let the buyer beware" is apparently a motto of BJ, as well. No surprise to me, as they have been in the business of making money from the beginning. Another fine example of their greedy measures was doing away with the Reserves a few years ago. Imagine taking your car to the auction on your big day and two shucksters go in together to bid on your masterpiece and they walk away paying 10% of the expected sale price and you have to auction fees (like 8% both ways) on top of that!! Give me a break. You couldn't pay me to associate with such scoundrels.
I have seen countless times folks like RM auctions and other smaller outfits go out of their way to affirm originality and historical claims by pulling cars off of the auction block sometimes moments before bidding is to commence. At least some of the auction houses still realize that integrity, at the end of the day, is all anyone really has. -
hear, hear & have read all of the woes of Kruse? Bankruptcy proceedings, owe banks millions, on & on + they've been doing it for years! Think I read they've had to surrender their corporate jet, boo hoo.
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Quite a few years ago, I owned a 57 T-Bird that I took to B/J to auction. As soon as the bidding started, two of their "sales associates" started working me (the seller) telling me that my car wasn't that nice, and not worth what I was hoping to get (I had a reserve). At the same time, other "associates" were working the bidders, telling them that they weren't bidding high enough, that the car was worth so much more.
It's all about their "cut". The more they make, they more they believe thier own hype.
I have said it on this forum several times. B/J is not good for our hobby.
Terry
