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In this Discussion
- 46HudsonPU October 2009
- bellbigdawg October 2009
- BJ__TN October 2009
- Browniepetersen October 2009
- Jon B October 2009
- RL Chilton October 2009
- rpmonroe October 2009
- Scott October 2009
Stainless on Headlight Buckets
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My '39 Hudson 112 has some narrow stainless on the rim of the headlight buckets (see picture below). They appear to be pressed-on, without any screws or other type of fastner.
Seems sensible to me that the stainless trim should be removed for refinishing and painting the buckets (?)...
Does anyone have any experience, thoughts, or recommendations as to the correct way to remove & re-install these pieces of stainless?
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Rick, The stainless does not need to be removed to be polished. As a matter of fact, it would be easier to do it with the stainless in place so when you polish it would have some stability and not distort from the speed or weight experienced from the polisher. When I did my buckets I chose to chrome plate the whole light (I know this is not "factory" but since this is a coach built car I took the option). We did have to repair the stainless from a few small cracks. The folks at headlightheadquarters told me it could not be removed and replaced and have them fit right? Anyway, that is what I know about it.....
English Hudson 8.15.09 head light best_125546877548665.jpg860 x 645 - 96KBrownie -
46hudsonPU,
I just went through this on my 36 Terraplane truck. They appeared to be stainless, but turned out to be chrome. So the chrome shop drilled out the two rivets that were on the bottom of the rim and took them out to chrome. It was left up to me to put them back in. There must have been a special tool to install them. You have to spread them out with quite a bit of force, like a reverse snap ring plier. They were also a very tight fit. I ended up putting the ring in the freezer and used a heat gun to warm up the bucket. I got mine back in but it was a real pain. And I'm sure your familiar with how hard those pesky glass lens are to reinstall.
Yours may be stainless, it would be great if they are. If so, I would defiantly leave them alone and have them polished in place. -
Brownie & Scott - Thanks for the info.
I think they are stainless - Have a couple of sets of these buckets, one set was more rusted than the other, and no rust or even pitting anywhere on this trim, on either set.
I did soak the trim a couple of times with penetrating oil, so they will need to be thoroughly cleaned to make sure that all of that is completely removed.
Once I get back home (at my daughter's place - granddaughter born this past Saturday), I'll begin work on soldering/leading the holes in the buckets from the rustout & smoothing things out. After that I'll try my hand at polishing the stainless. Most likely use POR15 to seal the inside of the buckets. -
Please be very very careful while polishing the rings, they are some of the most dangerous items to polish due to their shape and flexibility. They tend to travel very easily and quickly across the wheel and you may lose control of it quickly.
For over seventeen years I 've polished stainless without any fairly serious injury until a couple weeks ago while polishing some headlight doors. Before I even realized I had lost control of it the ring it came over the top of the polisher and put a good size gash on top of my head.
Now I where a cap while doing headlight rings and doors.
Be careful, don't use much pressure and go very slowly.
Trust your instincts, if you don't feel right about having it in a certain position DO NOT DO IT. -
rpmonroe wrote:
Very good advice! Any mechanical tool coupled with sharp, unstable objects can be hazardous unless extreme care is taken.Please be very very careful while polishing the rings, they are some of the most dangerous items to polish due to their shape and flexibility. They tend to travel very easily and quickly across the wheel and you may lose control of it quickly.
For over seventeen years I 've polished stainless without any fairly serious injury until a couple weeks ago while polishing some headlight doors. Before I even realized I had lost control of it the ring it came over the top of the polisher and put a good size gash on top of my head.
Now I where a cap while doing headlight rings and doors.
Be careful, don't use much pressure and go very slowly.
Trust your instincts, if you don't feel right about having it in a certain position DO NOT DO IT.
At this point, the narrow pieces of stainless will not be removed from the headlight buckets - They are pretty secure (not easily removed), and as such should be pretty safe as long as the bucket itself is kept stable during the work. -
A Fellow I know, a millwright by trade, would never use a hat or face shield. He was buffing a piece of grill bright work when a splinter of metal flew into his right eye. That small piece of metal found it's way to his optic nerve and into his brain. He was dead in 3 months!
ALWAYS USE SAFETY EQUIPMENT! It can/will save your life......
Bob Hickson -
That's an excellent idea, to leave the trim on the bucket while polishing it.
I have to admit that, due to the bizarre nature of lens removal in my headlight (push one end in, pry the other out) -- and due to the fact that the bucket opening has inexplicably shrunk (making an already-difficult lens removal operation, next to impossible) -- I now slide the entire trim ring off, prior to removing the glass. This widens the opening and makes glass removal waaay easier. To accomplish this I pried the trim open a bit at its two open ends, and the rest of it slides right off.
Replacement is done by starting at one of the open ends of the trim (at the 6 o'clock position on the bucket opening) and gradually working it into position around the bucket opening. I simply use my thumb to push it until it bottoms out on the rim, and then continue working my way around, clockwise. The bottom (open) ends of the trim stick out a bit and I suppose I could mash them in to be smooth....but then the trim wouldn't come off so easily next time I needed to remove my lenses! -
[QUOTE) was dead in 3 months!
Now there's a comforting thought for ya:(
Glad I have a good life insurance policy:) -
Jon B wrote:
Yours is stainless, right Jon?That's an excellent idea, to leave the trim on the bucket while polishing it.
I have to admit that, due to the bizarre nature of lens removal in my headlight (push one end in, pry the other out) -- and due to the fact that the bucket opening has inexplicable shrunk (making an already-difficult lens removal operation, next to impossible) -- I now slide the entire trim ring off, prior to removing the glass. This widens the opening and makes glass removal waaay easier. To accomplish this I pried the trim open a bit at its two open ends, and the rest of it slides right off.
Replacement is done by starting at one of the open ends of the trim (at the 6 o'clock position on the bucket opening) and gradually working it into position around the bucket opening. I simply use my thumb to push it until it bottoms out on the rim, and then continue working my way around, clockwise. The bottom (open) ends of the trim stick out a bit and I suppose I could mash them in to be smooth....but then the trim wouldn't come off so easily next time I needed to remove my lenses!
Hmmm... The description fits pretty well. The trim on the buckets I have do not appear to be that easily removed. I would rather paint the buckets without the trim, and then re-install it afterward. My concern is that it won't go on easily after the bucket is painted... -
46HudsonPU wrote:Yours is stainless, right Jon?
Hmmm... The description fits pretty well. The trim on the buckets I have do not appear to be that easily removed. I would rather paint the buckets without the trim, and then re-install it afterward. My concern is that it won't go on easily after the bucket is painted...
Possible to polish it first, then tape it off to paint? -
RL Chilton wrote:
That's my thoughts, if removal & re-installation is too difficult. I just don't want to leave any rust, dirt, etc., under that stainless trim...Possible to polish it first, then tape it off to paint? -
Well, you may have to live with that. You know there's rust under there. But on the flip side, if you can't easily get that trim off, you sure as hell don't want to destroy that trim in the process of an attempted removal. What do these go to, the '39? That would be some difficult pieces to try and find replacements.
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The only suggestion I have Rick, is to soak them bucket opening down in a 5-gallon bucket for a couple-three days in penetrating oil and see if they'll loosen up enough to even move them a little up and down on the edge of the bucket (I'm talking a few thousandths). If you can "wiggle" them after the soaking, you can remove them. Those are quite small, don't think I would try heat (by itself or in combination with the soaking).
I'd try this first, then if it doesn't work, go with the "live with it" route. That would be my plan. -
RL Chilton wrote:
Yup, the headlight buckets are for the '39.The only suggestion I have Rick, is to soak them bucket opening down in a 5-gallon bucket for a couple-three days in penetrating oil and see if they'll loosen up enough to even move them a little up and down on the edge of the bucket (I'm talking a few thousandths). If you can "wiggle" them after the soaking, you can remove them. Those are quite small, don't think I would try heat (by itself or in combination with the soaking).
I'd try this first, then if it doesn't work, go with the "live with it" route. That would be my plan.
Sounds like a plan. Luckily, I've got an extra set of 'buckets' to play with
(not counting a pair that are rusted beyond repair, so far gone they don't even have the lip where the stainless trim should be...). -
You've got extra sets??!! No sweat then! Grab a set of vise grips and rip those suckers off of there.
-
RL Chilton wrote:
Oh yea!You've got extra sets??!! No sweat then! Grab a set of vise grips and rip those suckers off of there.
Have been collecting parts-n-pieces for that '39 for quite some time... The two sets are about equal in their pin-hole rust through on the bottoms, so it is a 'crap shoot' as to which set I'll end up using.
Still looking for some 'hard to find' parts, so my quest continues! I'm sure that I'm not alone in that respect... :rolleyes: :cool: -
46HudsonPU wrote:Oh yea!
Have been collecting parts-n-pieces for that '39 for quite some time... The two sets are about equal in their pin-hole rust through on the bottoms, so it is a 'crap shoot' as to which set I'll end up using.
Still looking for some 'hard to find' parts, so my quest continues! I'm sure that I'm not alone in that respect... :rolleyes: :cool:
I'm sure you're not, but scouring for parts is half the fun, for some of us. Sure makes for a great day when you finally score than LH whizbang you had been looking for for months (or years). -
RL Chilton wrote:
It took a while, but I have come to enjoy the 'hunt' - more than one would imagine...I'm sure you're not, but scouring for parts is half the fun, for some of us. Sure makes for a great day when you finally score than LH whizbang you had been looking for for months (or years). -
got both mine off my 37 terraplane pickup buckets. they are stainless, seems to have a built-in "twist" to them. you can pull forever one way, then give them just the right twist and pull, and they pop right off. however, did a spare bucket once that was very rusty, the rust flakes expanded in the trim, making removal more difficult. a little time and persistance, they will come off. I would not even think of leaving them on when finishing the buckets, rust WILL pop out after a short period of time between the trim and your fresh paint!!
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bellbigdawg wrote:
Yes, that is my primary concern - rust ruining all the work & paint... Today is a rainy day here, so I'll fiddle with that and some tumbling today - if I can find anything to put in it (the tumbler has been pretty busy lately)...got both mine off my 37 terraplane pickup buckets. they are stainless, seems to have a built-in "twist" to them. you can pull forever one way, then give them just the right twist and pull, and they pop right off. however, did a spare bucket once that was very rusty, the rust flakes expanded in the trim, making removal more difficult. a little time and persistance, they will come off. I would not even think of leaving them on when finishing the buckets, rust WILL pop out after a short period of time between the trim and your fresh paint!! -
Took a bit of 'light' hammering and careful prying with a screw driver, but the narrow stainless pieces eventuallly came off without any damage.
I pryed from the inside rim of the stainless, so that if I made a mark, it would not show on the piece when I eventually put it back together. Am very glad I went through this - there was a lot of grit, dirt and flaking rust.
Next, I'm going to media blast the inside of the stainless pieces and re-blast the buckets. I'll wait on re-blasting the buckets until I get the body soldering kit from Eastwood (below).
Just ordered Eastwood's "EW Body Solder Kit Standard with DVD" (20% off), so I can repair the rust through on these buckets - I'll probably eventually use this for some of the other body repairs as well...
Looked on the internet, not many sell autobody soldering supplies nowadays.
Anyone have experience with the solder sold for autobody work? It appears to be conventional 30/70 solder... Would 'acid-core' and other types of solder work for this as well? :confused: -
stick with the actual body solder. that eastwood kit works well!! remember, the more you do, the better you will be. glad your bucket trim came off, mine was the same journey you went through.
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bellbigdawg wrote:
Yup! Ordered the Eastwood kit primarily because it has all the 'bells and whistles', which I could not easily find elsewhere, at least not all in one place...stick with the actual body solder. that eastwood kit works well!! remember, the more you do, the better you will be. glad your bucket trim came off, mine was the same journey you went through.
Eastwood's autobody solder is just 30/70 solder, and I'll be using the tinning butter for preparation - at least initially...
I have also ordered some general purpose solder of the same consistency (30/70), to see if there is any differences noted. At around $6.00 a pound (including shipping), it would be a considerable savings...
Have been reading about acid-core solder, used in situations where the metals are not in the 'best' of shape. The best advise here is to ensure that all surfaces that come into contact with the solder are thoroughly washed with a water/baking soda solution after the soldering - essentially the same step that is required of all soldering. -
Rick-
The "washing" after you lead is essential. Use a combination baking soda and water to thoroughly wash down the area before you prime, and after the area has cooled.
Eastwood's tinning butter is the best around. I buy solder and other supplies from TPI. , it's a little cheaper. Acid brushes you can pick up from just about anywhere (hardware store, or paint supply house). Stick with the 30/70 for auto body work. I save old lead weights from wheels and use that stuff for other types of metal work, but the 30/70 is best for auto body work. Make sure you clean your metal with a wire brush completely, getting all rust and dirt out of the pinholes before you tin. Keep in mind, you can lead in holes about 1/2" in diam. (like a bullet hole). Much larger than that, you need to cut a patch for it and weld it in. Also, if possible, after the "wash" of the baking soda/water mix, prime as soon as you can with epoxy primer. A day after you lead, surface rust can set up again, especially on wet days. If you don't, you have to go back and sand the whole area again to get it primed.
Also, I make my own paddles, if you need some, let me know. -
RL Chilton wrote:
Thanks Russell - I should have thought of TPI, that's who made my blasting cabinet & where I get those supplies from. I'll look over what they have in the way of bodysoldering supplies the next time I need to order media blasting supplies.Rick-
The "washing" after you lead is essential. Use a combination baking soda and water to thoroughly wash down the area before you prime, and after the area has cooled.
Eastwood's tinning butter is the best around. I buy solder and other supplies from TPI. , it's a little cheaper. Acid brushes you can pick up from just about anywhere (hardware store, or paint supply house). Stick with the 30/70 for auto body work. I save old lead weights from wheels and use that stuff for other types of metal work, but the 30/70 is best for auto body work. Make sure you clean your metal with a wire brush completely, getting all rust and dirt out of the pinholes before you tin. Keep in mind, you can lead in holes about 1/2" in diam. (like a bullet hole). Much larger than that, you need to cut a patch for it and weld it in. Also, if possible, after the "wash" of the baking soda/water mix, prime as soon as you can with epoxy primer. A day after you lead, surface rust can set up again, especially on wet days. If you don't, you have to go back and sand the whole area again to get it primed.
Also, I make my own paddles, if you need some, let me know.
I am doing electrolysis on most parts (those that will fit in a 30 gal garbage can or smaller) as an initial step (rust removal), then media blasting. At this point, the headlight buckets will be the first items leaded. I'll probably start another thread on that, and add to it as I progress. I've started a 'blog' on this project to keep somewhat of a diary of the progress as well as the 'photo' thing, and all of this will be added to it.
