ClassicCar

It's insane, "free money" which is nothing more than another bail-out for car companies. I believe dealers won't be making much by the time the roll advertising costs and commissions in.

The deleterious effects to the Auto Recycling businesses out there are just being ignored.

This is also creating a false demand for cars - that cannot be sustained unless the goverment keeps funding this.

IT is so frustrating, I've emailed and called my representatives to voice my opinion and I'm either ignored or treated like a child.

This is also going to kill the used car market - there are a lot of people happy to drive an older car because they cannot afford to buy a new one.

What are we to do? March on Washington to shut the "business" of politics down?

I fear it's going to come to civil unrest and violence if we continue to be ignored and the politicians keep thinking they no better than us po dumb folks :mad:

Dan you are right on the dealer profits. I heard this morning dealers are netting $50/car!

My boss took this opportunity to trade off one of his old blazers (with 430K miles on it--it was a disaster) and got the full funding that he placed on a VW. Not sure with I think of our tax money going to help the Germans? Oh, that's right--they are built in America (but this one has all German tags on it?:confused::confused:

50C8DAN wrote:

More grist for the mill:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204619004574324350084909302.html

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204313604574326531645819464.html

Hard to find fault with either article!

Of course certain politicians are crowing CARS is a success...people are lining up for "FREE" money - what a concept.

I don't want to sound all-too high and mighty...What bugs me is all the people lining up at the trough :mad:

Do they have no self-respect? Does it not bother them that this "free money" will mostly come from someone else's pocket, or their childrens pockets?

I refuse to sign-up for welfare and food stamps - even though I only have 20.00 to my name. For me it's more about my self dignity and pride - I am physically able, and willing to work and I won't take money from someone else.

I just can't buy into - "Well if I don't take it someone else will"

Nevada Hudson wrote:

Now you are seeing "Change you can belive in".

Yes, a lot of fools fell for that remark, change you can believe in, but I was not one of them. I Own 3 cars all paid for and the government is not going to touch any of them. My Jeep gets 22 per, my Hudson get 20 to 22 per and my Cruiser get 33. Who needs a new junk. Walt.

This SHOULD really get your panties in a wad - a just reward for people seeking "FREE MONEY"

If you are a car dealer logging into the CARS website this is the disclaimer you have to agree to - This is not made up either!

This application provides access to the DOT CARS system. When logged onto the CARS system, your computer is considered a federal computer system and it is property of the United States government.

Any or all uses of this system, and all files on this system may be intercepted, monitored, recorded, copied, audited, inspected, and disclosed to authorized CARS, DOT, and law enforcement personnel as well as all authorized officials of other agencies, both domestic and foreign. By using this system, the user consents to such interception, monitoring, recording, copying, auditing, inspecting and disclosure at the discretion of CARS or the DOT personnel.

The goverment now has all of your personal information and the right to access it from the CARS disclaimer - plus the rights to access all the data stored on the car dealers computer AND GIVE IT TO FOREIGN COUNTRIES

There's change you can believe in!

50C8DAN wrote:

Dan as of yesterday this disclaimer has been taken down and will be replaced by something else.

Yes, I did hear last night that they "removed" this form of the disclaimer - but all the car dealers had already accepted these terms.

So the real question now is - does removing the verbage retro actively remove the fact that they already agreed to accept it and basically gave away their constitutional rights?

Very doubtful.

And what if the sales people had logged into the system from their laptops or home computers?

Has nothing to do with socialism or communism or terrorism. This program is called stupidity it's all window dressing. They're using the visa to pay off the mastercard. They would've been better off just giving everyone $4500 straight up no strings and not towards the purchase of anything. I'm just opting out though. You couldn't sell me a new car period. I'll fix my oldies even if I have to push em around town. But put 535 people (mostly former lawyers) in a room to think up something and they come up with this crap, none of which ask the simple question "do we have the right to spend the people's money without asking/putting it to a vote?" Nothing is going to change in the auto industry, they had a chance they blew it, but eventually the dam will burst and we'll be forced to do something about our transportation issues the hard and painful way.

46HudsonPU wrote:

Exactly... ANY means of communication is subject to monitoring, worldwide. NSA is the largest employer in the county I live in, and may be the biggest employer in the state. There is NOTHING that they do not monitor, record and gather information upon. :eek:

Addendum: Just read that NSA will be adding 11,000 jobs... Talk about increased staffing for 'Big Brother'...

Those jobs will be filled with Government Servants (GS for short) as the OB administration said they would increase employment. At this time they are making good on this promise by eliminating as many contrator filled postions as they can. The previous reason from hiring contractors was to fill positions to free up military members for thier primary job... fighting wars. At this time there is no plan to move the GS to fighter status... just put them on the federal payroll. Unlike the contractor the USG will pickup the health care, retirement plans and the overhead associated with each new employee. No sour grapes here, just another part of the pay for HOPE plan our new president brought to us all. :mad:

probably pushing wrote:

Actually what is happening now is the culmination of about a hundred years of what is euphemistically called Progressivism, which in reality is just another way to provide the ruling class with a way to control the those that actually provide the impetus to keep the money coming in.
If everybody is beholden to the State for the basics for life, then to just simply live you must do as the State bids, why do you think it is so easy to get on welfare? and why the Fed has been trying to push it down everybodies throat since the civil war? there is a reason the carpetbaggers were loathed besides of coarse their rapacious greed.

Did you read Beck's Common Sense?

Progressivism is the disease and it's infected both parties over the last 100 years.

That's why when you go to vote there doesn't seem to be any difference in which party you choose, they're both for keeping the ruling elite - status quo - and expansion of goverment to "take care" of the sheeople.

The 2x in the last 30 years there's been real job growth was during Reagan and Clinton.

Reagan, correctly stated "Government is not the solution to the problem, government is the problem" and proceeded to shrink government and the economy took off.

Clinton was forced to the center by the Republican held congress in 1994 and they actually balanced the budget, thus shrinking government - and the economy took off.

Bush expanded the government and entitlements and then the republican held congress and their successors in 2006 have clearly been "compasionate progressives" spening "at will" and the economy has tanked - it was only "looking" good for awhile because of false job creation from mortgages and housing...all the while we were shipping tech jobs, and manufacturing jobs overseas.

Only when goverment steps back and allows the American people to live and be free will we get out of this economic funk.

With the current administration quadrupling the deficit in 6 months - how, or when will that ever happen?

Democrats increase the size of Government through their social programs. Republicans increase the size of Government in defense spending and security programs. Their spending our money either way, it's just a matter of what they're spending it on. Don't buy that any politician is shrinking the size of Government. Institutions do not vote themselves out of existence, they perpetuate themselves. Any closing of departments and agencies and the like is just one party closing down the other party's programs when it gets enough power to do so and implementing its' own.

The argument of what Gov't should and shouldnt do (its' role) continues, that's the only real difference in the parties. It would be nice if we had no political parties. The consitution makes no mention of them.

I saw a chevrolet Bolt on the news today at work that gets 230 miles to the gallon-- yes, that is not a misprint. And you can get this hy--whatever four door for the cheap price of 40K. My old hudson would never burn that much gas in my lifetime.......

hudsondad wrote:

I know this won't be a popular post on this forum, but not only have I paid more than my share of taxes over the last many years, but I want to thank the following:

Mr. Obama and Congress for the $4500 they contributed for my Ford F150 4wd w 113K miles that I bought new in 1988.

GM Mastercard for the $1800 in accumulating rebate $$$ toward the purchase of a new GM product for using my credit card and paying it off in full each month avoiding any interest.

Another $1000 in Conquest(?) $$$ for owning a non GM vehicle.

And the Local Chevrolet dealer for a substantial discount off the MSRP on a new 2010 Equinox. (The local Ford dealer wanted full MSRP on a Ford Edge because we were eligible for the clunker cash.)

Anyway, love the 32 MPG, Satelite radio and the new 2010 styling. And its paid in full, unlike the national debt that quadrupled under Bush and continues under the new regime.

You're welcome...hudsonkid and his children will enjoy paying off this debt-debacle long after we're gone...

rambos_ride wrote:

You're welcome...hudsonkid and his children will enjoy paying off this debt-debacle long after we're gone...

You're absolutely right, Rambo, but this problem started 8 years ago when Bush allowed jobs to be shipped overseas and quadrupled the debt, after he inherited a balanced budget and we were paying the debt down. This present administration has done no better, but at least this program helps the automakers, parts makers and steel industry back to work and clears the many unsold 2009 vehicles off the lots. You guys are right, it may not be the best idea to shred all these vehicles, but it is what it is.



Our grandchildren will never see the debt paid off, but we've seen worse $$$ given away in the bail outs. How about Morgan Stanley for instance that received 10 Billion and turned around and gave out 4.5 billion in 2008 performance bonuses to executives and top account managers just a few months ago?



I have no problem with hard working Americans taking advantage of government programs after they've paid their fair share overe the years and may have run into a bumpy road thru no fault of their own. I do have a problem with generations of non-working welfare recepients, expecting government handouts forever, and the very rich who pay no taxes, including many in congress that "forgot" to pay.



If the universal health care program is such a good deal, I would challenge congress to give up their lucrative benefits that they voted for themselves and be the first to join whatever they pass for the rest of America.

geez...



how come my name came up in this debate. I hardly even frequent the board here, and well, there it is, my name comes up. :rolleyes:



I think there is never going to be a happy medium on this one, but what do you do to encourage the people that can buy new vehicles, to buy new vehicles, in what could be best termed a "shaky" economy?



The program is doing what it was set to do, albeit, no one is going to agree with the means of funding it, nor the means of disposing of the "clunkers" but at least there is an effort being put in place to do something, whether it is deemed good or bad. The government has vested interest in the success of the autmaking industry, they need to do something to make it not fail, not selling cars in a bad economy is not the answer.



Let's face reality, how many collectible cars are going to be traded in on this program? If someone is driving a collectible car, they understand the collector value, and likely they are going to keep it, save it from the crusher. The bulk of the cars that qualify are similar to the Ford F-150 that Hudsondad sent to the crusher, gas guzzling vehicles that are not worth more than $1000, used mainly as a yard vehicle.



A lot of this debate comes from the point on the political line in which you stand. I doubt anyone with a conservative mindset is going to support this program, or any other program that comes out of this current regime in power, whether it yields favorable results or not.



Eh, at the end of the day, be happy for Hudsondad, he's helping to spur the economy, and supporting GM at the same time. He's helping pave the road to economic recovery. Maybe this whole thing will turn around and we can get back on the road we were on pre 2000....