ClassicCar

I don't think the 787 billion is just for job creation. So, you'll have to settle for a few hundred thousand less.

Hoover didn't do a thing during the depression and he got kicked out. Now given enough time maybe the market would've corrected and the people who couldn't stay in business would've given way to people who could figure out how to do so. Roy Chapin himself (A business man) was working on the problem.

Americans however are not that patient when they're out of a job. One has to question whether or not it is a proper function of Government to be the employer of last resort when the economy is not employing anyone. Roosevelt thought the answer was yes so he started all those public works programs, many of which were later declared unconstitutional, but for the short term put a lot of people back to work and built a lot of forest preserves and national parks and the TVA and all of that.

There is no incentive in our economy to employ anyone, in fact the opposite is true, the more you can automate and cut people out of the equation, the better your profits are. So who does our economy exist for?

The social darwinists among us would say only the strong survive. The Americans among us would say all should have an equal chance....not a right but a chance at their individual definition of success.

Bailing out a major company is almost the same as saying that the company has the right to succeed. But done under the assumption that the company in question will contribute to the success of others by employing them, when they do not have any profit motivation to do so doesn't seem like it would achieve the desired outcome.

From the Gov't standpoint everyone out of work is another person not paying any taxes. If the Gov't is the one employing they expect it to create a spending multiplier through the economy. It's a revolving door from the tax standpoint unless it actually works and the economy grows from it.

For the time being most people are at least giving the President the chance to do something rather than nothing even if it's done with horrible Gov't inefficency. My .02

nhp1127 wrote:

The people who voted Obama in are now getting exactly what they voted for- more taxes, bigger government and appologies overseas for being American. Why are people so suprised? Everyone who looked at BHO could see his voting record and the special interest groups supporting him.



I hope every Obama supporter enjoys helping to pay someone else's mortgage that they defaulted on.



Socialism works fine until you run out of other peoples money.

To quote Eleanor Roosevelt, "If you don't have anything nice to say about anybody, have a seat right next to me."

tombia wrote:

What MORE TAXES?. Mine have not increased?. Whats so wrong about what he is doing with his foreign policy? So far his policies have hopefully made us less unhated overseas, and it seems that the worldwide economy is possibily getting better, BIGGER Govt. Where? No bigger than previous admin. I don't know anyone who is overly suprised. It seems that most people are willing to give him a chance. The whole goverment is controled, both right and left by special interest. Socialism is BIG area.

BHO's govt is the same size as previous administrations? Really? You are factually incorrect. The Govt and the UAW now owns GM, taking over one of the largest companies in the world, it controls AIG and the banks that were bailed out, it is pushing for nationalized heath care which will be controlled by the goverment.

Fact is, most countries love the USA. It is the left wing media that says otherwise. Now, tell us all just what BHO should be apologizing for? How about closing Gitmo? The question you should be asking yourself is why do some of these other nations supposedly hate us? For making terrorist prisoners wear panties on their heads? They don't like the way we treat terrorist in Gitmo? If so, how come NONE of them will take any of these terrorist into their own countries. Answer: they and the lefty's are hypocrites and talk from both sides of their mouths. They say they hate us but they like our military protection, our dollars and our women. It is still the U.S. who protects these countries, both Muslim and Christian. The U.S. spent billions and hundreds of lives liberating and protecting muslim Bosnia, the U.S. spent billions in humanitarian aid in muslim Africa and Somalia, saved muslim Saudi Arabia and Kuwait from Iraq and the U.S. saved the Iraqi people from Saddam Hussain. How much oil has the USA stolen from Iraq? And the muslims hate us? Just what is there for BHO to apologize for? For being infidels? Maybe THEY should apologize for still living in the middle ages. How about they start with how their women are treated like dogs and how they strap bombs onto children and have them blow up other innocent women and children or even blow up their own mosques?

How about BHO apologizes to North Korea? BTW, why hasn't the messiah BHO fixed that situation? They can kiss my a--.

BHO has raised taxes and this is just the beginning. Where do you think he is going to get the money to nationalize health care? From the "big bad companies" who employ Americans? If so, then those companies will simply get the money from increased fees from their customers and workers like YOU and ME. Someone is going to have to pay for bigger govt...... who do you think that is?

The Problem, Is that there are too many Democrats AND Republicans. Democrats think only they know what is good for the country. Republicans think only they know what is good for the country. What we need to do is get rid of all of them. WE NEED AMERICANS, Not Republicans or Democrats.
My .02
Bob

The Obama Haters’ Silent Enablers

By FRANK RICH



WHEN a Fox News anchor, reacting to his own network’s surging e-mail traffic, warns urgently on-camera of a rise in hate-filled, “amped up” Americans who are “taking the extra step and getting the gun out,” maybe we should listen. He has better sources in that underground than most.



The anchor was Shepard Smith, speaking after Wednesday’s mayhem at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington. Unlike the bloviators at his network and elsewhere on cable, Smith is famous for his highly caffeinated news-reading, not any political agenda. But very occasionally — notably during Hurricane Katrina — he hits the Howard Beale mad-as-hell wall. Joining those at Fox who routinely disregard the network’s “We report, you decide” mantra, he both reported and decided, loudly.



What he reported was this: his e-mail from viewers had “become more and more frightening” in recent months, dating back to the election season. From Wednesday alone, he “could read a hundred” messages spewing “hate that’s not based in fact,” much of it about Barack Obama and some of it sharing the museum gunman’s canard that the president was not a naturally born citizen. These are Americans “out there in a scary place,” Smith said.



Then he brought up another recent gunman: “If you’re one who believes that abortion is murder, at what point do you go out and kill someone who’s performing abortions?” An answer, he said, was provided by Dr. George Tiller’s killer. He went on: “If you are one who believes these sorts of things about the president of the United States ...” He left the rest of that chilling sentence unsaid.



These are extraordinary words to hear on Fox. The network’s highest-rated star, Bill O’Reilly, had assailed Tiller, calling him “Tiller the baby killer” and likening him to the Nazis, on 29 of his shows before the doctor was murdered at his church in Kansas. O’Reilly was unrepentant, stating that only “pro-abortion zealots and Fox News haters” would link him to the crime. But now another Fox star, while stopping short of blaming O’Reilly, was breaching his network’s brand of political correctness: he tied the far-right loners who had gotten their guns out in Wichita and Washington to the mounting fury of Obama haters.



What is this fury about? In his scant 145 days in office, the new president has not remotely matched the Bush record in deficit creation. Nor has he repealed the right to bear arms or exacerbated the wars he inherited. He has tried more than his predecessor ever did to reach across the aisle. But none of that seems to matter. A sizable minority of Americans is irrationally fearful of the fast-moving generational, cultural and racial turnover Obama embodies — indeed, of the 21st century itself. That minority is now getting angrier in inverse relationship to his popularity with the vast majority of the country. Change can be frightening and traumatic, especially if it’s not change you can believe in.



We don’t know whether the tiny subset of domestic terrorists in this crowd is egged on by political or media demagogues — though we do tend to assume that foreign jihadists respond like Pavlov’s dogs to the words of their most fanatical leaders and polemicists. But well before the latest murderers struck — well before another “antigovernment” Obama hater went on a cop-killing rampage in Pittsburgh in April — there have been indications that this rage could spiral out of control.



This was evident during the campaign, when hotheads greeted Obama’s name with “Treason!” and “Terrorist!” at G.O.P. rallies. At first the McCain-Palin campaign fed the anger with accusations that Obama was “palling around with terrorists.” But later John McCain thought better of it and defended his opponent’s honor to a town-hall participant who vented her fears of the Democrats’ “Arab” candidate. Although two neo-Nazi skinheads were arrested in an assassination plot against Obama two weeks before Election Day, the fever broke after McCain exercised leadership.



That honeymoon, if it was one, is over. Conservatives have legitimate ideological beefs with Obama, rightly expressed in sharp language. But the invective in some quarters has unmistakably amped up. The writer Camille Paglia, a political independent and confessed talk-radio fan, detected a shift toward paranoia in the air waves by mid-May. When “the tone darkens toward a rhetoric of purgation and annihilation,” she observed in Salon, “there is reason for alarm.” She cited a “joke” repeated by a Rush Limbaugh fill-in host, a talk-radio jock from Dallas of all places, about how “any U.S. soldier” who found himself with only two bullets in an elevator with Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Osama bin Laden would use both shots to assassinate Pelosi and then strangle Reid and bin Laden.



This homicide-saturated vituperation is endemic among mini-Limbaughs. Glenn Beck has dipped into O’Reilly’s Holocaust analogies to liken Obama’s policy on stem-cell research to the eugenics that led to “the final solution” and the quest for “a master race.” After James von Brunn’s rampage at the Holocaust museum, Beck rushed onto Fox News to describe the Obama-hating killer as a “lone gunman nutjob.” Yet in the same show Beck also said von Brunn was a symptom that “the pot in America is boiling,” as if Beck himself were not the boiling pot cheering the kettle on.



But hyperbole from the usual suspects in the entertainment arena of TV and radio is not the whole story. What’s startling is the spillover of this poison into the conservative political establishment. Saul Anuzis, a former Michigan G.O.P. chairman who ran for the party’s national chairmanship this year, seriously suggested in April that Republicans should stop calling Obama a socialist because “it no longer has the negative connotation it had 20 years ago, or even 10 years ago.” Anuzis pushed “fascism” instead, because “everybody still thinks that’s a bad thing.” He didn’t seem to grasp that “fascism” is nonsensical as a description of the Obama administration or that there might be a risk in slurring a president with a word that most find “bad” because it evokes a mass-murderer like Hitler.



The Anuzis “fascism” solution to the Obama problem has caught fire. The president’s nomination of Sonia Sotomayor to the Supreme Court and his speech in Cairo have only exacerbated the ugliness. The venomous personal attacks on Sotomayor have little to do with the 3,000-plus cases she’s adjudicated in nearly 17 years on the bench or her thoughts about the judgment of “a wise Latina woman.” She has been tarred as a member of “the Latino KKK” (by the former Republican presidential candidate Tom Tancredo), as well as a racist and a David Duke (by Limbaugh), and portrayed, in a bizarre two-for-one ethnic caricature, as a slant-eyed Asian on the cover of National Review. Uniting all these insults is an aggrieved note of white victimization only a shade less explicit than that in von Brunn’s white supremacist screeds.



Obama’s Cairo address, meanwhile, prompted over-the-top accusations reminiscent of those campaign rally cries of “Treason!” It was a prominent former Reagan defense official, Frank Gaffney, not some fringe crackpot, who accused Obama in The Washington Times of engaging “in the most consequential bait-and-switch since Adolf Hitler duped Neville Chamberlain.” He claimed that the president — a lifelong Christian — “may still be” a Muslim and is aligned with “the dangerous global movement known as the Muslim Brotherhood.” Gaffney linked Obama by innuendo with Islamic “charities” that “have been convicted of providing material support for terrorism.”



If this isn’t a handy rationalization for another lone nutjob to take the law into his own hands against a supposed terrorism supporter, what is? Any such nutjob can easily grab a weapon. Gun enthusiasts have been on a shopping spree since the election, with some areas of our country reporting percentage sales increases in the mid-to-high double digits, recession be damned.



The question, Shepard Smith said on Fox last week, is “if there is really a way to put a hold on” those who might run amok. We’re not about to repeal the First or Second Amendments. Hard-core haters resolutely dismiss any “mainstream media” debunking of their conspiracy theories. The only voices that might penetrate their alternative reality — I emphasize might — belong to conservative leaders with the guts and clout to step up as McCain did last fall. Where are they? The genteel public debate in right-leaning intellectual circles about the conservative movement’s future will be buried by history if these insistent alarms are met with silence.



It’s typical of this dereliction of responsibility that when the Department of Homeland Security released a plausible (and, tragically, prescient) report about far-right domestic terrorism two months ago, the conservative response was to trash it as “the height of insult,” in the words of the G.O.P. chairman Michael Steele. But as Smith also said last week, Homeland Security was “warning us for a reason.”



No matter. Last week it was business as usual, as Republican leaders nattered ad infinitum over the juvenile rivalry of Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich at the party’s big Washington fund-raiser. Few if any mentioned, let alone questioned, the ominous script delivered by the actor Jon Voight with the G.O.P. imprimatur at that same event. Voight’s devout wish was to “bring an end to this false prophet Obama.”



This kind of rhetoric, with its pseudo-Scriptural call to action, is toxic. It is getting louder each day of the Obama presidency. No one, not even Fox News viewers, can say they weren’t warned.

There is nothing wrong with having strong opinions. In fact, this is where alot of our problems come from... that people don't stand up for what they believe. Why should we let someone take away our right to own a gun? Why should we let our govenment (Dems and Repubs)continue to let in illegal immigrants and then have to pay for their schooling, medical and prison cost? The silent majority has been silent too long and it is only now that they are speaking up because their deep pockets aren't so deep anymore. Unfortunately, the middleclass has continually turned the other check because they are too busy working earning an honest living.

OK, I'm done.



P.S. Look at the news ratings- CNN and CNBC get killed every day by Fox News. There is a good reason for that.

Tom,



I feel it is my honor to tutor you on the cable media. There is something called market share and ratings. This is what advertisers look at when they spend their advertising dollars. Try googling info on the stats... here is just one of many.



http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/210239-Cable_News_Ratings_Fox_News_Stays_On_Top.php



Feel free to post any statistic that shows otherwise.



And sorry but this thread is way too old. Later.

I wish I'd written this...

Great idea, how about term limits for illegals?

A lot of truth in what you say Grandpaw, I'm in your bracket,sameas a lot of other huys here, and this is NOT a bunch of whineing. It is dissatisfaction with the things happening, like over a million dollars to build a tunnel under a road in Florida for the TURTLES to go thru. And if you recall in the 30's/40's everything wasn't made offshore. THAT is our real problem [along with greed in high places] and no Dem/Rep in D.C. is willing to admit it. What we are seeing is OUR MONEY being given to those who want to ship even more jobs offshore while even more of our work force is put out of a job in the process. Get out of this mess in 5 years ? DREAM ON BUDDY and I hope your neighbor plants a BIG garden cause YOUR going to need it !---BUD