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In this Discussion
- 1049superg June 2009
- 46HudsonPU June 2009
- 51hornetA June 2009
- Dave53-7C June 2009
- DaveFury May 2009
- harry54 May 2009
- hudsontech June 2009
- Jon B June 2009
- junkcarfann June 2009
- Lee ODell June 2009
- MikeWA June 2009
- nhp1127 June 2009
- Poncho68 May 2009
- Ray June 2009
- RL Chilton June 2009
- Sgnl50 May 2009
- walts garage-53 June 2009
Hudson Hornet License Plate Frames
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nhp1127 wrote:I'm still looking for quotes on production but these will run about $50.00 a pop. Atleast it gives a good idea of what you can expect. These are top quality chrome plated brass....
Cool. I still want 'em.Dave W.
What's life without a Hudson? -
Still interested, Niels. If you can get them in time for the Nat'l. and you are going, I'm sure you could sell just about all you will have.
-
I've gotten the price down to $35.00, however, I just noticed that to mount these on a stepdown, the license plate mounts to the car using the bottom two holes on the license plate.... soooo, I have to pick a slightly different frame that has the holes on the bottom. I'll post the changes when finalized.
P.S. Poncho68- Cool! -
nhp1127 wrote:I've gotten the price down to $35.00, however, I just noticed that to mount these on a stepdown, the license plate mounts to the car using the bottom two holes on the license plate.... soooo, I have to pick a slightly different frame that has the holes on the bottom. I'll post the changes when finalized.
P.S. Poncho68- Cool!
Neils,
You can count on me for at least one license plate mount and possibly two.
Ray
P.S. did you ever find stainless steel beltline pieces for quarter panel? -
Here is another version with the mounting holes on the bottom. There is not as much space for lettering on the bottom and I want large lettering so to be seen. Any other suggestions for the bottom? Otherwise, if you approve, I'll order the first 10 units. Niels
Hudson License Plate Frame 3_320x200_124415631846461.jpg320 x 200 - 20K -
If I see your car and YOUR license frame says "Chicks dig me . . ." on the bottom, I'll be upset that I didn't get that version (hey, every little bit helps)
No, "Champions" is great. Can't think of something better at the moment. -
I'd stick with the "NASCAR Champions" as that tells people where Hudsons have earned the title of "Champions".
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Try moving "NASCAR Champions" to the top, and "Hudson Hornet" to the bottom...
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I vote for the latest one.
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nhp1127 wrote:It's the same area size- here is the change
Try asking the vendor if the two-hole frame can be rotated 180 degrees (holes on the bottom), then engraved. Shouldn't matter, holes are the same on the bottom of the license plate as they are on the top, and the engraving machine shouldn't know the difference either...
That way, you get the bigger letters on the top (NASCAR Champions), and still have the same room for "Hudson Hornet" at the bottom. -
46HudsonPU wrote:Try asking the vendor if the two-hole frame can be rotated 180 degrees (holes on the bottom), then engraved. Shouldn't matter, holes are the same on the bottom of the license plate as they are on the top, and the engraving machine shouldn't know the difference either...
That way, you get the bigger letters on the top (NASCAR Champions), and still have the same room for "Hudson Hornet" at the bottom.
The vendor said he can do it. So, It will say "NASCAR Champions" on top and "HUDSON HORNET" on the bottom. I'm going to put in the first order for fourteen on Monday. The cost on these are $35.00 each- this is my cost, there is no mark up so no bellyaching. I will need to add the cost for shipping plus $2.00 to your location aswell. -
nhp1127 wrote:The vendor said he can do it. So, It will say "NASCAR Champions" on top and "HUDSON HORNET" on the bottom. I'm going to put in the first order for fourteen on Monday. The cost on these are $35.00 each- this is my cost, there is no mark up so no bellyaching. I will need to add the cost for shipping plus $2.00 to your location aswell.
Please add two for me.
Thanks,
Ray
kada9528@cox.net -
1049superg wrote:
What ever you do, do not use the word NASCAR, as they will take you to court for using their name with out permission. Then they will demand a royalty on every set sold and it could be the full amount. Walt.I'd stick with the "NASCAR Champions" as that tells people where Hudsons have earned the title of "Champions". -
walt's garage-53 wrote:What ever you do, do not use the word NASCAR, as they will take you to court for using their name with out permission. Then they will demand a royalty on every set sold and it could be the full amount. Walt.
Walt, if they want to spent a few hundred thousand dollars on legal fees on collecting royalties on 10 to 15 Hudson license plate frames then they can stand in line with GM and Chrysler. Bring it on. -
walt's garage-53 wrote:What ever you do, do not use the word NASCAR, as they will take you to court for using their name with out permission. Then they will demand a royalty on every set sold and it could be the full amount. Walt.
Now, now, the sky is not falling. In talking to many car manufacturers in Detroit over the years on behalf of car clubs, they've all informed me that fees for use of trademarked names are waived for car clubs. At most, you might have to fill out a form they'll glady send you.
__________________ -
nhp1127 wrote:The vendor said he can do it. So, It will say "NASCAR Champions" on top and "HUDSON HORNET" on the bottom. I'm going to put in the first order for fourteen on Monday. The cost on these are $35.00 each- this is my cost, there is no mark up so no bellyaching. I will need to add the cost for shipping plus $2.00 to your location aswell.
I will take two. Thanks. Lee -
nhp1127 wrote:The vendor said he can do it. So, It will say "NASCAR Champions" on top and "HUDSON HORNET" on the bottom. I'm going to put in the first order for fourteen on Monday. The cost on these are $35.00 each- this is my cost, there is no mark up so no bellyaching. I will need to add the cost for shipping plus $2.00 to your location aswell.
Sorry to toss water on your project - but you can't use "NASCAR" without permission from NASCAR. It's copyrighted.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN -
hudsontech wrote:Sorry to toss water on your project - but you can't use "NASCAR" without permission from NASCAR. It's copyrighted.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN
Thanks Alex, but plates are ordered. You forget, chicks dig me AND I'm a rebel.
If I end up making more then I will attempt to get some sort dispensation from them. -
Way to go, Niels!
-
Remember when NASCAR sends its guys to get you when you speed ahead in your Hudson hang it high in the curve and give it gas, let your door rub the rail if you have to but don't let them catch you.
Never and I mean never take your foot off the gas...... www.hudsonmotorcar.org -
hudsontech wrote:Sorry to toss water on your project - but you can't use "NASCAR" without permission from NASCAR. It's copyrighted.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN
So are Hudson, Essex, Terraplane, Hornet, Wasp and everything else Hudson that you are reproducing and selling. Do you have authorization from Chrysler to use the Hudson property they own? Let us know if they come knocking at your door and we'll come and save you.
If this is a hobby project and not a commercial interest seeking to profit financially from the use of a trademarked name, I doubt NASCAR would care. Besides, saying that Hudson was a NASCAR champion is a matter of fact. Therefore, Hudson has already paid the royalties to be a NASCAR sponsor and use their acronym in advertising. If permission were to be required, it would probably have to come from Chysler. -
There is a fine line here - I'm not making a direct copy of any item. I'll give you an example.
There was a vendor selling upholstery kits for older Chrysler cars. Chrysler did send legal beagles after him. However, his supplier, and I'm using rough figures here because I don't recall the exact, told him not to worry. The supplier was stiching the material using 16 threads per inch; Chrylser was using 18 or 20 tpi. The difference made the repro NOT a direct copy.
Same with what I do. The type font is different from original, the formatting is different - it's not a direct copy. As I say, it is a fine line. And in any event I've given up selling the material, except for the General Information Handbook, and that's my own creation.
With the NASCAR logo, I don't know how you could work around that - NASCAR is NASCAR and there ain't no way you can get around that. I do think I might contact NASCAR and find out just what I could or couldn't do. They might even endorse the project.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN -
Still, aren't you using info that is owned by others?
I like the upholstery example. It shows how fruitless persuing low buck Mom and Pop operations really is.
In your case, I wouldn't be worried about reselling info. You're just recouping the costs you incur to get info to car owners so they may enjoy it as part of the hobby, right?
After all, you're just sharing info that you have bought/already own, right?
If the people at NASCAR have nothing better to do with their time and money, they could make a mountain out of any mole hill. However, I doubt they have the desire to waste thousands of dollars, not to mention risking possible bad publicity, to stomp on "car guys" who have used their name on a few license plate frames. For all they know, NaScAr could be in reference to the elements of (Na - sodium, Sc - scandium and Ar - argon) that all Hudson lovers thrive on.
I could understand the threat of litigation if someone were making thousands of items, using copyright or trademark protected property without license, to reap untold profits. That's not the case here. -
Let's step back for just a minute and think about this.
NASCAR is trying to protect its name from unauthorized use by those wishing to profit from it.
But if I scrawled "Hudson -- NASCAR Winner" on the side of my Hudson, they would have to have their head examined, to sue me. The suit would be thrown out of court. I'm not merchandising the NASCAR name.
So, if Niels simply has paperwork to prove that he had a bunch of these frames made up "for his friends", and that they all split the cost -- with no one making a profit -- then no one could accuse him of profiting at NASCAR's expense.
It shouldn't be hard to take advance orders, and split the cost (I'll leave it to Niels' creative accounting to show there's no profit, LOL!), you'd probably be okay. On the other hand, if he makes up a few hundred of these things, promotes them widely amongst the general public, and becomes a millionaire....well.....watch out! -
walt's garage-53 wrote:What ever you do, do not use the word NASCAR, as they will take you to court for using their name with out permission. Then they will demand a royalty on every set sold and it could be the full amount. Walt.
What about STOCK CAR CHAMP. That takes up the same amount of space as NASCAR CHAMPIONS. After all, Hudson was not only champion in NASCAR but also AAA stock car races, NHRA and any other legal or illegal races. Lee -
Jon B wrote:Let's step back for just a minute and think about this.
NASCAR is trying to protect its name from unauthorized use by those wishing to profit from it.
But if I scrawled "Hudson -- NASCAR Winner" on the side of my Hudson, they would have to have their head examined, to sue me. The suit would be thrown out of court. I'm not merchandising the NASCAR name.
So, if Niels simply has paperwork to prove that he had a bunch of these frames made up "for his friends", and that they all split the cost -- with no one making a profit -- then no one could accuse him of profiting at NASCAR's expense.
It shouldn't be hard to take advance orders, and split the cost (I'll leave it to Niels' creative accounting to show there's no profit, LOL!), you'd probably be okay. On the other hand, if he makes up a few hundred of these things, promotes them widely amongst the general public, and becomes a millionaire....well.....watch out!
Good points Jon. Why not let the manufacturer of the plate frames worry about the legal aspects, if any. -
Just to throw my "lawyer" two bits into this: From what I've seen of trademark infringement cases, the big dog is not interested in what little money comes from this project; they are interested in controlling their trademarked name. They will not try to get a percentage of the take, they will just get an injunction and make you stop, plus ask for "damages" in an amount that will scare the he!! out of you. But don't worry, they'll roll over on the damages, if you just get all the offending merchandise back and destroy it.
Contrary to popular belief, this doesn't take years of litigation and hundreds of thousands of dollars- It will only be as lengthy and costly as you make it for them- and you would be foolish not to fold like a Walmart card table if you are served with a lawsuit threatening famine, pestilence and plague, by an entity with pockets that deep.
Not that they aren't interested in money- they certainly are- but only through licensing agreements that are going to make big dollars. And undoubtedly, someone already has the right to use the NASCAR name on license plate frames.
BTW, what did Chrysler say when you asked them about using the Hudson name?
Believe I'd rethink the project. -
Mike (WA) wrote:Just to throw my "lawyer" two bits into this: From what I've seen of trademark infringement cases, the big dog is not interested in what little money comes from this project; they are interested in controlling their trademarked name. They will not try to get a percentage of the take, they will just get an injunction and make you stop, plus ask for "damages" in an amount that will scare the he!! out of you. But don't worry, they'll roll over on the damages, if you just get all the offending merchandise back and destroy it.
Contrary to popular belief, this doesn't take years of litigation and hundreds of thousands of dollars- It will only be as lengthy and costly as you make it for them- and you would be foolish not to fold like a Walmart card table if you are served with a lawsuit threatening famine, pestilence and plague, by an entity with pockets that deep.
Not that they aren't interested in money- they certainly are- but only through licensing agreements that are going to make big dollars. And undoubtedly, someone already has the right to use the NASDCAR name on license plate frames.
BTW, what did Chrysler say when you asked them about using the Hudson name?
Believe I'd rethink the project.
Exactly.
NASCAR makes a big portion of their profits from clothing and trinkets such as license plate frames, via the licensing of their name. Much of their legal department is focused upon protecting the name, which they have done with great success.
I do not know if this tiny project would even surface on their radar, (unless perhaps this on-line discussion triggers it), but the principle remains: NASCAR makes money from licensing their name. Unlicensed usage gets stomped on. Period. -
So are Hudson, Essex, Terraplane, Hornet, Wasp and everything else Hudson that you are reproducing and selling. Do you have authorization from Chrysler to use the Hudson property they own? Let us know if they come knocking at your door and we'll come and save you.
In the case of literature it depends on the copyright of the work itself. For example, my General Info Handbook is copyrighted - this means you can't go out and print up copies and sell them without my permission, or paying me a royalty.
If the copyrights on, say, a 1924 Hudson instruction book, are still in force, then I could possibly be in trouble. However, that said, I'm not selling the material nor is it exactly the same as original, so there is that to consider.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN -
hudsontech wrote:So are Hudson, Essex, Terraplane, Hornet, Wasp and everything else Hudson that you are reproducing and selling. Do you have authorization from Chrysler to use the Hudson property they own? Let us know if they come knocking at your door and we'll come and save you.
In the case of literature it depends on the copyright of the work itself. For example, my General Info Handbook is copyrighted - this means you can't go out and print up copies and sell them without my permission, or paying me a royalty.
If the copyrights on, say, a 1924 Hudson instruction book, are still in force, then I could possibly be in trouble. However, that said, I'm not selling the material nor is it exactly the same as original, so there is that to consider.
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN
Alex,
Like I said before, you are just passing along info that you have paid for/own and are charging only what it costs you to do so. No profits, right? -
Dave53-7C wrote:hudsontech wrote: »
Alex,
Like I said before, you are just passing along info that you have paid for/own and are charging only what it costs you to do so. No profits, right?
I make a couple bucks off my handbook, Dave. But the point is, yes, I’ve used material from other sources and
most of those sources are given in the general notes section. Usually crediting the source pretty much covers
the use of the material - if someone should send me a letter saying I can’t use that material, then I would proba-
bly have to remove it from the handbook.
Another example are the technical bulletins on my web site. The Tech. Bulletins - Vol. 1 were originally published in the WTN back in the 1970’s and early 80’s. Does this mean the president of the club is going to send me a rocket saying I can’t put them on-line. Most likely not, in this case.
Another source to look at are the books and manuals offered on ebay by Faxon. Do they have permission from multiple sources to reprint the automotive manuals they sell?? Or closer to home, the club store. What’s the set-up on the manuals they offer. Again, it is my understanding that if an item is “reproducedâ€, as opposed to “duplicated†(meaning reproduced in such manner it is a mirror image of the original, then one is probably not going to have problems. By “mirror image†I mean putting out a manual, or whatever, that exactly duplicates the color of the covers, the formatting, which includes type face - in other words a product that is a direct duplicate of the original.
In the case of the license plate frames the use of the word (??) NASCAR is a direct duplicate and thus could be a problem. Even using something like “Champion Hornets†or “Hornet Champions†could be a problem - Chrysler may own the rights to Hornet. AMC used it; Chrysler bought AMC. Hudson Champions might be ok, but I think you could run into a problem using crossed checkered flags in the logo to denote what kind of champions.
As the Grinch said “’tis a puzzle!!â€
Hudsonly,
Alex Burr
Memphis, TN -
Niels-
What is the size? Are they set up for modern plate sizes? Any chance of making some that fit the older license plates? -
RL Chilton wrote:Niels-
What is the size? Are they set up for modern plate sizes? Any chance of making some that fit the older license plates?
Russell - Here's the site, take a look -
http://www.autoplates.com/
