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In this Discussion
- 46HudsonPU June 2009
- Fred C May 2009
- half baked June 2009
- jsrail May 2009
- Lee ODell June 2009
- nick s April 2009
- probably pushing August 2009
- RL Chilton April 2009
- Rob_Fayette September 2009
- Ron P April 2009
- Sambone May 2009
- SamJ April 2009
- Sgnl50 June 2009
- Super 7 April 2009
- terraplane8 July 2009
- tombia June 2009
Toyota in a Hudson?
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I just read an online article from Hot Rod magazine telling how a guy is putting a Toyota JDM 2JZ GTE engine in a '67 Camaro. With only a little tweaking, you can supposedly get near 1000bhp out of these twin turbo, inline six motors! Very interesting swap and these motors are going on eBay for around a couple grand with a tranny (some are a bit more $$, just have to look around). About what I spent for my LT1/4L60e combo a few years ago.
I'm not sure on the dimensions and how they may or may not fit in a stepdown's engine bay, or how the Hudson weight would work on these, but I thought an interesting idea for more horsepower and better mileage than most of the traditional american small blocks.
Any thoughts guys?
Jay -
As far as size goes, if it fits in a Camaro, it would certainly fit in a Hudson, as the engine bay is much larger. Next question for me is, isn't this a transverse engine? If so, engineering that aspect would certainly be the challenge here. Interesting project, though!
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There is an HET Club Member in SoCal who put a Lexus engine in a Hudson Stepdown Convertible. Interesting car..can't think of his name at the moment...:cool:HETfortyqtpi@earthlink.net (drop the HET)
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my friend is a very serious drifter, he had a cracked manifold on his 2JZ (aftermarket stainless) that i repaired. they relatively compact, i sat it alongside my 308 block, the entire thing was only about as long as 4 cylinders of it. to give you an idea, they are stuffing 2j's into AE86 corollas in japan. lukes made about 350kw flywheel, it was an APE. good luck is all i can really say
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RL, these motors are inline not transverse. One problem I read was that many you find of these motors are front sump which wouldn't work with our front suspensions, but apparently the Camaro guy found on that uses a rear sump pan that worked. Not sure exactly which years and/or models use a rear sump pan or if there is an aftermarket one.
nother thing supposedly is the noise. I guess you have to get a little used to more of a loud sewing machine kinda sound. My shortys would help, but it would be interesting to talk with that convertible guy to see what he used in his entire set-up. Please let me know if you guys remember his name.
Jay -
I actually considered putting a Toyota engine into the tan '46 Hudson PU that I am working-on. It wouldn't have been a 4 banger (even that twin-turbo), but was thinking of the V8 engine/trans combo that came in the Tundra. It is very dependable, has decent HP, etc..
Lack of aftermarket support for 'rodding' was the tombstone on this selection - there isn't ANYTHING in the aftermarket for transplanting of this drivetrain...
Other engines considered -
- Small diesel (Mercedes or light truck diesels);
- GM 4.2L inline 6... This one finished a close second;
A 2005 GM 5.3L Vortec V8/4L60e (with less than 500 miles on it) is patiently sitting in my storage shed, waiting to be put into the tan Hudson PU (295 HP).
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ahaha dont worry about a lack of sound, these things sound savage especially when you wind the boost up. lukes had a single 3" exhaust i think, in his chaser
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQMte_HSy0A
and not quite on topic of toyota engines, but luke in his race car. hell of a battle!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMnvyzqh9Cw -
Just sold my wifes 1991 Lexus LS 400 V8 and that car rocked..Ron
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/98-99-00-Lexus-SC-LS-GS400-1UZ-V8-Engine-Tranny-71k_W0QQitemZ120394703315QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item120394703315&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 -
Ron P wrote:
Another that was on my 'short list'...Just sold my wifes 1991 Lexus LS 400 V8 and that car rocked..Ron
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/98-99-00-Lexus-SC-LS-GS400-1UZ-V8-Engine-Tranny-71k_W0QQitemZ120394703315QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item120394703315&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318 -
Man some good video! I don't know, I'm thinking this is still an interesting option I'm going to be thinking about. I was originally thinking of the inline 6, but have to see if I can get some measurements of it vs. the V8 engines. And these things are still getting great mileage vs. hp if your foot's not into it all the time. My neighbor is from England and he says Europe for years have had high hp cars with good mileage for years. Not trying to harass the American auto makers, but I think it may be time for something a little different, especially since they are so reasonably priced (at least for now) and not many hotrodders are using them yet. My neighbor has all these $1,000's of dollars of software for tuning these computer systems that I could use. Again, just another interesting idea.
Jay
P.S. (off subject) My son got his first out in tee-ball this morning with a forced out play at third base! WooHoo! -
yes, with the boost down yer granny would be happy to drive it. these sixes are very compact, at 2.5litres (1jz) or 3 litres, 2jz. 2j's are a lot easier to get parts for, but when you can make ridiculous power on the stock internals what does it matter
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jsrail wrote:My neighbor has all these $1,000's of dollars of software for tuning these computer systems that I could use.
To do it correctly you may need that software, a dyno, and most importantly a technician that knows how to use the software and dyno.
The Hudson might be a bit different though. My experience is from a Lotus 7 inspired car, 1250lb and 240hp. This was a radical departure from the car that the motor was designed for, plus the motor was massaged.
After the dyno work the hp had not changed. What changed was the delivery. The car went from a quick car to a OMG car with significantly better mileage.
I am looking to do what you are thinking about. Putting a Japanese drive train in a Hudson. Looking forward to any updates you have. -
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Coincidently, on the way home today a 24 Essex touring caught my eye. So I had to follow it home. Turns out its a guy from the next ridge over with that has a real nice '35 Hudson 6 coach (you west coasters may remember it, he had it at Reno as an Albright candidate)and a barnfull of ford t and a's. I was impressed with the way it pulled the hills and still ran down the road at 45-50 - turns out it has a toyota 4 in it. neat car if you didn't see the engine through the louvers you'ld never expect it to not be stock even puffed a little smoke on the shifts
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Call me a traditionalist hypocrite, but there's just something that doesn't sit right in my mind thinking of a Toyota motor in a classic American automobile.
I know a lot of arguments can be made as to why it's a wise choice (better mpg and bhp and parts availability among them) but the romantic in me just doesn't feel it.
To each their own, lord knows I've done things I'm not proud of. I had a Toyota for years up until recently and never once had any engine troubles ... but the thought of that "ricey whine" instead of that domestic rumble coming from a Hudson is a serious mental speedbump. -
I have heard there is a way depending on which muffler you use, to get rid of that "whine". I have also considered that, since I don't want it to sound like a "tuner"! But, I still think its an interesting idea and unusual. And for me, cost and mpg is high priority for me since this darn disability has sorely restricted cash flow for my family.
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jsrail wrote:
Hi Jay,I have heard there is a way depending on which muffler you use, to get rid of that "whine". I have also considered that, since I don't want it to sound like a "tuner"! But, I still think its an interesting idea and unusual. And for me, cost and mpg is high priority for me since this darn disability has sorely restricted cash flow for my family.
Keep on a 'Truckin' -! The flow "ideas" is always welcome!
Honestly, I did consider putting a late model Toyota V8 & auto trans w/OD into a Hudson. The major stumbling block was that there isn't much available (information or hardware) for this type of a 'swap'... -
Don't get me wrong. I am all about making do with what I've got ... take a look at the heap I brought home and you'll have to agree. If cost is a consideration, I'm sure it would be much better to have your car on the road than sitting there waiting for an affordable, cost effective and efficient vintage engine to fall from the sky. Along with those flying pigs.
I'm sure where there's a will there's a way, and if you slap some form of muffler on there that gets rid of the whine, I doubt anyone would be the wiser. I wouldn't be surprised if there would be a lot of questions coming your way about doing a tech article describing the process. -
Richard Reed is the owner of the 1952 Convertible with the Lexus V8 under the hood. I helped him build this car about five years ago...........It is now restored but he did drive it for three or so years in black primer and penstrips............He also has a 38 Chevy two door sedan, 36 Ford five window coupe, 55 Chevy truck and a 32 Ford HighBoy style five window coupe, all powered with Lexus engines. They are all sweet rides that are smooth and fast.
Fred Connors -
Sgnl50 wrote:
Before you get too upset - go through your house, and put everything made outside of the U.S.A. in your garage or a separate room, and don't use them -Putting a Japanese motor in an American car.........and people wonder why America has so many problems..........................:mad:
A quick guess is that most people doing this won't be able to get on the internet (computer), watch TV (any TV made in the last 20 years or so), talk on the phone (cell phone or conventional phones), see after dusk (light bulbs), or even brush their teeth with toothpaste or a toothbrush...
Not an answer, just enlightenment as to how many common everyday objects we use in our daily lives are made overseas. Many of these items are still made in the U.S.A & available - should we take the time to take a little closer look & make a more knowledgeable decision.
A couple of examples -
- Colgate toothpaste is made in Mexico, and their toothbrushes are made in China;
- Some Sylvania lightbulbs are made in Taiwan, others are made in China;
And these are just a couple of small items... -
creating demand for foreign made products is one thing, reusing a foreign made product is another
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half baked wrote:
A matter of semantics and personal opinion... My comments directly addressed the reference quoted.creating demand for foreign made products is one thing, reusing a foreign made product is another
And, for the record - Although it may say Toyota, Honda, etc., many of these vehicles are now 'made' in the U.S. - probably about the same way a Ford, Chevy or Dodge are... -
46HudsonPU wrote:A matter of semantics and personal opinion... My comments directly addressed the reference quoted.
And, for the record - Although it may say Toyota, Honda, etc., many of these vehicles are now 'made' in the U.S. - probably about the same way a Ford, Chevy or Dodge are...
Well said. I had a Honda Civic that the only part made overseas was the transmission. Rest was USA made. -
46HudsonPU wrote:A matter of semantics and personal opinion... My comments directly addressed the reference quoted.
And, for the record - Although it may say Toyota, Honda, etc., many of these vehicles are now 'made' in the U.S. - probably about the same way a Ford, Chevy or Dodge are...
Last sommer I went on a tour of the Toyota assembly plant. Guess what. Toyota and Pontiac were both assembled on the same assembly line. Toyota, Pontiac, Toyota, Toyota, Toyota, Pontiac, Pontiac, Toyota, Pontiac. Lee -
Lee O'Dell wrote:
Yup, that must have been one of the cars that Toyota and GM did a 'joint venture' on... Not sure what will come of that, now that Pontiac is supposidly history. Guess GM will change the label, and we'll see it as a Chevy -Last sommer I went on a tour of the Toyota assembly plant. Guess what. Toyota and Pontiac were both assembled on the same assembly line. Toyota, Pontiac, Toyota, Toyota, Toyota, Pontiac, Pontiac, Toyota, Pontiac. Lee -
This is amazing, a Cosworth in a Model A that looks 100% stock even down to having the engine misfire at low revs to fool people. And the wood spoke wheels are actually fake cast ones!!!!!! 0-100kmh in 5 secs.
http://www.mat.fi/n_index.php?nav=gallery_view&gallery=project1929fordmodel-a.xml&g=13
And here is the video YOU WON'T BE DISAPPOINTED!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.mat.fi/n_index.php?nav=gallery_video&video=video_a_ford_fast_version.flv&g=13 -
As far as americas problems, they are more a pesonnel problem than anything else . the reason the chevy 350 is so popular is because it is plentiful, efficient, and exceedingly well supported. and that is why it is between more frame rails than any other engine, as is evident the modern engines are starting to come to the fore (LS series) so I would expect to see alot more of the foreign engine swaps for the same reason that the 350 was so popular, support, efficiency and availability.
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I believe his name is Richard Reed
