ClassicCar

Richie

I have made the decision to put headers on my 50 Pacemaker Brougham. (short wheel base car) I have read all the threads that I could find in my searches. There were several issues discussed like proper fit, (that was cured at the shop by bolting the headers to a block before shipping) weld or not weld, slip joint etc., what size pipe to use and so-on. Has anyone installed the Clifford headers on a short wheel base car recently? Any suggestions or opinions are welcome. My main concern is being able to bolt the two pieces to the block and having them flat against the block with no warping. Do you think the latest offered Clifford headers are now a trouble free install. Thanks, Richie.

hudsonguy

Richie,

I don't have a short wheelbase car, so I don't know about that fit, but personally, I love the set of Cliffords I put on my '49 two years ago. I believe I benefited from others that had fit up problems on their headers, because the set I bought fit great. I've recently had them off and repainted them, and after two years use, they still look new. BTW, I bought them with the powder coat option, and it was burning off in the corners within a year. That's about the only bad thing I can say about the set I have. I should've just saved that money and gone with a good baked on paint like I've done now.

The only modification I had to make was the oil draft tube from the rear valve cover had to get a nice big dent applied to it for clearance, but it's unseen when all is bolted together. In my case, I used the 'Y' connector to go from two 2" pipes to a single 2-1/4" with a small single turbo muffler in the original location. Good Luck.

Richie

Thanks Hudsonguy, I hadn't thought about the oil draft tube, but that would be an easy fix as you mentioned. I will probably run duals as opposed to the single pipe. Thanks again, Richie.

bigboy308

Remember, there isn't a lot of room UNDER a Hudson for mufflers. My setup is just like Hudsonguy's with straight-thru muffler in stock position @ the rear. Make sure you check ground clearance, especially if car is not @ stock height.

I LOVE driving thru tunnels or next to sound walls, just to hear the smoooooth exhaust!

Richie

Thanks bigboy308, I haven't looked at that area yet, just listening to what is said. Single exhaust is probably the most practical way but I kinda like the duals sound. I've got to get under it and grease it this coming week so I'll take a good look then. Thanks again, Richie.

Ol racer

Maybe consider installing a modern PVC System to avoid denting the Headers.

I install a gromet with a Chevy V8 PCV Valve in the rear valve cover then run a hose to a vacum port. I also install a Mopar style oil Fill cap with a hose up to the air filter canister.

Be it right or wrong its worked on my Hudson's quite awhile and like to think there is a residual benefit from the update....

Incidently I like the sound of duals too and run pipes out both sides to appear like a V8 enhancing the tone a bit..

Richie

Ol racer wrote:

Maybe consider installing a modern PVC System to avoid denting the Headers.

I install a gromet with a Chevy V8 PCV Valve in the rear valve cover then run a hose to a vacum port. I also install a Mopar style oil Fill cap with a hose up to the air filter canister.

Be it right or wrong its worked on my Hudson's quite awhile and like to think there is a residual benefit from the update....

Incidently I like the sound of duals too and run pipes out both sides to appear like a V8 enhancing the tone a bit..

That is a possibility Ol racer, as that would be a good time to do it. Does putting oil vapor into air/fuel mixture lower the octane / make less power? Or cause carbon build-up on the valves? Do you think it helps/hurts or has no appreciable affect other than being good for the environment? Thanks, Richie.

Ol racer

Richie,

I have a PCV System on a rebuilt Hornet and a worn '53 motor that was breathing out the draft tube at idle. The worn motor did need hotter spark plugs afterward. I also have a PCV on a good used 262 motor in my truck.I have had no motor leaks or adverse effects with any of the Installations.

I feel a PCV system may add motor longetivity without impacting performance like modern engines, but its just my opinion.

DaveFury

Richie wrote:

Thanks bigboy308, I haven't looked at that area yet, just listening to what is said. Single exhaust is probably the most practical way but I kinda like the duals sound. I've got to get under it and grease it this coming week so I'll take a good look then. Thanks again, Richie.

How does the Hudson 6 sound w/ headers and duals? Does it sound at all similar to a V-8 or a V-6 w/ duals?

Richie

DaveFury wrote:

How does the Hudson 6 sound w/ headers and duals? Does it sound at all similar to a V-8 or a V-6 w/ duals?

Dave, I've only heard one Hudson with duals and it sounded pretty good, I liked it. I sold my 47 Plymouth that had a really built flathead in it and it sounded like a V8 at idle. It had a split manifold with duals, had a race cam in it also which made it sound good. Richie.

DaveFury

Richie wrote:

Dave, I've only heard one Hudson with duals and it sounded pretty good, I liked it. I sold my 47 Plymouth that had a really built flathead in it and it sounded like a V8 at idle. It had a split manifold with duals, had a race cam in it also which made it sound good. Richie.

That's good to know. I was contemplating putting on a dual exhaust w/ a Clifford header on my '51, but was worried it might sound like one of those import "tuner" cars.

Richie

DaveFury wrote:

That's good to know. I was contemplating putting on a dual exhaust w/ a Clifford header on my '51, but was worried it might sound like one of those import "tuner" cars.

Dave, it would not sound anything like a "tuner". I tried to post a short clip of the Plymouth exhaust sound but it wouldn't let me, probably to big. Richie.

51hornetA

It will never sound like a tuner or a V6 or V8. The Hudson straight 6 flat top has a sound like a rumble. I love it. I blew out the core of my muffler on my 51 so it now sounds like Doc Hudson. I have not replaced the muffler yet as I really like the sound. Its a rolling rumble. There is something unique about the sound of an inline engine. I think rolling rumble is the best way to describe it.

DaveFury

51hornetA wrote:

It will never sound like a tuner or a V6 or V8. The Hudson straight 6 flat top has a sound like a rumble. I love it. I blew out the core of my muffler on my 51 so it now sounds like Doc Hudson. I have not replaced the muffler yet as I really like the sound. Its a rolling rumble. There is something unique about the sound of an inline engine. I think rolling rumble is the best way to describe it.

Excellent. Can anyone post a video on Youtube.com or Video.google.com of a Hudson with duals? 51hornetA, can you video yours by the tail pipe so we can hear it?

51hornetA

Sure it sounds great my daughter loves when I rev it....sounds like pure muscle......

Richie

51hornetA wrote:

Sure it sounds great my daughter loves when I rev it....sounds like pure muscle......

51hornetA, I want to hear it too!!!!

duncan

how can you make a 308 hudson engine lope not sure if that is the name

sometimes sounds like it is going to quit and then idles good. Idles up and down. Ray:D

Richie

DaveFury wrote:

Excellent. Can anyone post a video on Youtube.com or Video.google.com of a Hudson with duals? 51hornetA, can you video yours by the tail pipe so we can hear it?

Dave, I just put a short video on you tube, the screen on you tube is very dark. This is the first time I tried to use you tube, not sure it will work but try this. Put MVI 3267 and then scrol down until you see to the right of the picture the name of the author in blue print is fastpacemakers, that is it. Richie.

ESSX28-1 · ESSX28-1 April 2009 Posts: 995Platinum Member

Great sound but v dark pic.

Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sp0N_gg7NRs

DaveFury

Richie wrote:

Dave, I just put a short video on you tube, the screen on you tube is very dark. This is the first time I tried to use you tube, not sure it will work but try this. Put MVI 3267 and then scrol down until you see to the right of the picture the name of the author in blue print is fastpacemakers, that is it. Richie.

WOW! That sounds great. That's a Mopar 230 flathead? What mufflers are on it?

hudsonguy

Ol racer wrote:

Maybe consider installing a modern PVC System to avoid denting the Headers.

I install a gromet with a Chevy V8 PCV Valve in the rear valve cover then run a hose to a vacum port. I also install a Mopar style oil Fill cap with a hose up to the air filter canister.

Be it right or wrong its worked on my Hudson's quite awhile and like to think there is a residual benefit from the update....

Incidently I like the sound of duals too and run pipes out both sides to appear like a V8 enhancing the tone a bit..

You don't dent the headers! Dent the oil tube. I appreciate your PCV information, just wanted to clear up where the dent needs to be put.

dougson

Ol racer wrote: »

Maybe consider installing a modern PVC System to avoid denting the Headers.

I install a gromet with a Chevy V8 PCV Valve in the rear valve cover then run a hose to a vacum port. I also install a Mopar style oil Fill cap with a hose up to the air filter canister.

What a cool idea. What did you use to block the blow-by hole (pipe outlet)?

PaceRacer50

I sure hope this works but this is how my 50 PaceMaker sounds

with open headers. After the burnout you can hear her lope at

the starting line. the idle speed is right at 800rpm in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBFedRnDdkE&feature=related

by the way, please excuse the bog when I left the line. I forgot to load

the engine up against the torque converter and she will bog from idle when

I go full throttle. usually I load her up to 2000 rpm against the converter

& will leave with no bog at all...

thanks,

PaceRacer50

Richie

PaceRacer50 wrote:

I sure hope this works but this is how my 50 PaceMaker sounds

with open headers. After the burnout you can hear her lope at

the starting line. the idle speed is right at 800rpm in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBFedRnDdkE&feature=related

by the way, please excuse the bog when I left the line. I forgot to load

the engine up against the torque converter and she will bog from idle when

I go full throttle. usually I load her up to 2000 rpm against the converter

& will leave with no bog at all...

thanks,

PaceRacer50

That is awesome PaceRacer50, maybe someday I'll have a Hudson engine that sounds like that. !! Richie.

MikeWA

Looks like you dusted the Stude, even with the bog. . .

I've got duals on my '48 with 308 Twin-H and Clifford headers, but mufflers are too quiet for my taste- thinking of getting cut-outs, and just using them to go around the mufflers and back into the tailpipe. Could adjust the sound for the circumstances (leaving the car show, or cops in vicinity, etc.) Don't think it would be as louds as your open headers, but probably an improvement over what I've got.

PaceRacer50

I am running twin Flowmaster super 40's that end right ahead of the rear end. with the caps on its still loud but tailpipes would calm that down a lot. Having header caps that are easy to remove are the best thing I did to this one.

I perfer the Flowmaster American Thunder series of mufflers because they give a more "Metalic" sound to the exhaust. These super 40's just do not sound right to me.

Once I get the fundage saved up I am going to change them and have the exhaust with tailpipes completed. Its 2-1/2" right now and I plan on keeping it that way.

The mufflers are right under the passenger's side rear floor and there is minimum ground clearance. Both of these may have to go under the trunk floor since I am running a fuel cell in the trunk. there is plenty of room there for duals.

later,

PaceRacer50

Richie

DaveFury wrote:

WOW! That sounds great. That's a Mopar 230 flathead? What mufflers are on it?

Dave, the Plymouth engine is a 218 bored .060 with a 230 crank and rods that makes it 236 cubes. It has a wild cam, head milled .040, dual carbs and exhaust. I runs very good but my stock 262 in my 50 Pacemaker is faster. The muffler shop suggested I use the middle range, "mello sound" mufflers so that is what I used. Richie.

`Hudsonator

Two thumbs up and a big wide grin on the video clip!

Ralph's car sounds great. I'm still tweaking those AFB's to get that bog out.

Our '49 is running Clifford headers and I noticed right off the bat that it ran cooler. As far as mufflers, we're running the DynaFlow crossover muffler with 2-1/4" pipes. A single muffler that has two inlets/outlets that cross inside the muffler. Its all a tight fit, the muffler at the rear next to the gas tank.

Real deep, throaty sound at low rpms - but is nearly identical to the Doc Hudson race clip from "Cars" when you wind her up.

I can't stop playing Ralph's clip.

Mark

Richie

`Hudsonator wrote:

Two thumbs up and a big wide grin on the video clip!

Ralph's car sounds great. I'm still tweaking those AFB's to get that bog out.

Our '49 is running Clifford headers and I noticed right off the bat that it ran cooler. As far as mufflers, we're running the DynaFlow crossover muffler with 2-1/4" pipes. A single muffler that has two inlets/outlets that cross inside the muffler. Its all a tight fit, the muffler at the rear next to the gas tank.

Real deep, throaty sound at low rpms - but is nearly identical to the Doc Hudson race clip from "Cars" when you wind her up.

I can't stop playing Ralph's clip.

Mark

Mark, the exhaust sound video is from the car you saw at the Redneck Rumble a few years ago with Don Coatney (47Plymouth)

Did you have any serious issues putting the headers in your 49? Did you wrap them? I don't want any surprises once I start the job. Don may be on the market for a Hudson !!! Richie.

Lee ODell

Richie wrote:

Mark, the exhaust sound video is from the car you saw at the Redneck Rumble a few years ago with Don Coatney (47Plymouth)

Did you have any serious issues putting the headers in your 49? Did you wrap them? I don't want any surprises once I start the job. Don may be on the market for a Hudson !!! Richie.

Richie, wrapping headers accelerates header pipes rusting out. Learned the hard way. Condensation between wrap and pipes. Lee

Richie

Lee O'Dell wrote:

Richie, wrapping headers accelerates header pipes rusting out. Learned the hard way. Condensation between wrap and pipes. Lee

Lee, thanks for the info, I'll remember that. Once on, I don't want to worry about them for years to come. Richie.

`Hudsonator

Richie wrote:

Mark, the exhaust sound video is from the car you saw at the Redneck Rumble a few years ago with Don Coatney (47Plymouth)

Did you have any serious issues putting the headers in your 49? Did you wrap them? I don't want any surprises once I start the job. Don may be on the market for a Hudson !!! Richie.

Don's car sounds great. Mopar flatheads sound generally good with a true dual exhaust.

However, nothing else on the planet sounds like a Hudson.

I had no issues with the "shorty" header install other than the draft tube problem already mentioned. We simply cut the draft tube off and piped it out of the way of the headers with flexible tubing.

One thing I'd add is to go ahead and buy the soft aluminum or thick annealed copper header outlet flange gaskets - and do not use the fiber ones provided with the headers. They are much easier to install before your pipes get connected/fabricated. Being the el-cheapo I am, I first used the fiber ones, and they lasted about 30 seconds. The problem is that if you over-tighten them, they break. If you under-tighten them, they burn through. The soft metallic ones, you tighten down really tight - they are soft enough to take on the imprint of your flanges and stay put.

On the other hand, the muffler/pipe shop did have a time bending the pipes and fitting them under the spartan-like belly of the Hudson. Getting the pipes to the Header flange bent to miss the crossmember and stay inside the sub-frame rail is by far the toughest job. The header outlets are so close together when viewed from behind, it makes pipe fitting tough and flange gasket replacement tedious - hence use the right flange gaskets the first time.

I haven't seen anyone exposed to the Hudson that didn't get converted, Remember - I started out a mopar man myself! Coatney is just in the process of being converted too.

Mark

Richie

`Hudsonator wrote:

Don's car sounds great. Mopar flatheads sound generally good with a true dual exhaust.

However, nothing else on the planet sounds like a Hudson.

I had no issues with the "shorty" header install other than the draft tube problem already mentioned. We simply cut the draft tube off and piped it out of the way of the headers with flexible tubing.

One thing I'd add is to go ahead and buy the soft aluminum or thick annealed copper header outlet flange gaskets - and do not use the fiber ones provided with the headers. They are much easier to install before your pipes get connected/fabricated. Being the el-cheapo I am, I first used the fiber ones, and they lasted about 30 seconds. The problem is that if you over-tighten them, they break. If you under-tighten them, they burn through. The soft metallic ones, you tighten down really tight - they are soft enough to take on the imprint of your flanges and stay put.

On the other hand, the muffler/pipe shop did have a time bending the pipes and fitting them under the spartan-like belly of the Hudson. Getting the pipes to the Header flange bent to miss the crossmember and stay inside the sub-frame rail is by far the toughest job. The header outlets are so close together when viewed from behind, it makes pipe fitting tough and flange gasket replacement tedious - hence use the right flange gaskets the first time.

I haven't seen anyone exposed to the Hudson that didn't get converted, Remember - I started out a mopar man myself! Coatney is just in the process of being converted too.

Mark

Thanks for the info on the gaskets Mark, I'll take your advice. Yeah, Coatney is hooked !!! Richie.

Nevada Hudson

I looked on Clifford's website, guess they do not carry the head anymore!

ski4life65

Nevada Hudson wrote:

I looked on Clifford's website, guess they do not carry the head anymore!

Try This:

http://www.cliffordperformance.net/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=CP&Category_Code=H8

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