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5 million Dollar Tucker Conv?
  • Hud1105Hud1105
    Posts: 44Senior Contributor
    I know its not Hudson but I thought the group would be interested in the hooppla surrounding this one.



    Check out the ebay link:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250376617340



    I dont think this car is what they say it is, check out the following link to read my take on what we are seeing and I have pictures so check it out:



    http://hudsonandrods.blogspot.com/
  • hudsontechhudsontech
    Posts: 4,050Platinum Member
    Interesting - on that 2nd link (hudsonandrods) the fellow claims, from his father, that the only color you could get a Hudson in is green!!!!



    So I guess everybody now has to repaint their cars. :D



    Regards the Tucker - I turned this up on a google search:



    "Regarding the convertible, the Tucker Club historians have interviewed every designer they could be find and just about every person involved with Tuckers when they were being built. There was never a convertible, even a prototype.



    I rarely say "never-ever," knowing that cars said to have been destroyed occasionally show up alive and well, but in this case I suspect that the experts are right."



    Who knows. Strange unknown's show up all the time. Regards the Jet Convertible, for example.



    Let's see - $275-$300k for an Italia, $5mil for a Tucker convert - yeah, I can almost cover those prices. Only need, oh, $274,000 for the Italia, couple bucks more for the Tucker. :D



    Hudsonly,

    Alex Burr

    Memphis, TN
  • Jon BJon B
    Posts: 4,770Moderator
    [This is fascinating but, not being about a Hudson, it's been moved to the Discussions section.]
  • faustmbfaustmb
    Posts: 1,109Platinum Member
    This Tucker vert seems shifty...



    How many Hudson fans didn't know that a Jet vert existed?



    How many Hudson Jet fans didn't know a vert existed?



    How is it possible that most Tucker fans knew nothing about a vert? Theres only 50 cars total to keep track of? Someone would have known of this thing and tracked it - like the Jet...



    I don't think I'll buy it :)
  • Nevada HudsonNevada Hudson
    Posts: 945Platinum Member
    Now we have to find the elusive "Hornet Jet". There were articles about it in the WTN in the early 70's.
  • Sarah YoungSarah Young
    Posts: 511Platinum Member
    My husband's been a member of the Tucker fan club for years and we have personally seen Tuckers #1007, 1016, and 1047 as well as the movie prop car in Ypsilanti. Although this may certainly be an authentic unfinished Tucker from when the plant shut down, it did not leave the Tucker Corp as a convertible... a 48 which had received alterations to window openings for a prospective 49 is more likely. Leftover parts and another Tucker to use as a model for recreating panels has probably been beneficial in this build. I think this is a neat project that's being misrepresented.



    There's a thread on the official Tucker site on this:

    http://www.tuckerclub.org/bbs3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=57&sid=dd7fcf62f6bac9bc0ddf21dd81878957



    P.S. I've changed my comp's desktop background to the converible Tucker picture and won't say a word about it until my husband goes to use the computer tonight and I see his reaction, lol. :)
    Take a Ride in a Hudson Jet!
  • Hud1105Hud1105
    Posts: 44Senior Contributor
    Thats a terrible trick to pull on your husband. From what I understand this is quite the sore topic among the Tucker folks.



    I have been fortunate enough to see the Kughn collection, the Tucker at the Henry Ford, the one displayed at Gilmore, a green one awhile back (lots of accessories) at the orphan car show in yipsy and the movie car. Sorry I dont know the numbers.



    Here is another link on the Tucker site that has more threads:



    http://www.tuckerclub.org/bbs3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1424&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30
  • rpmonroerpmonroe
    Posts: 295Gold Member
    Comparing the pictures of the cars pictured at both web sites it very much appears to be the same car.



    The areas of imperfection in the metal are identical.
  • 46HudsonPU46HudsonPU
    Posts: 5,152Moderator
    A lot of contflict and dissention in this... Honestly, Looking at the photos and viewing what information there is online, I'm leaning (heavily) toward a hodgepodge of parts made into a convertible.
  • nhp1127nhp1127
    Posts: 2,275Platinum Member
    Here is the reply from the seller....



    The car that was in Detroit was #27, was on frame #52, and was outfitted with parts from various other Tuckers. #27 is listed on the Tucker Club's website as being the car the was rolled during testing at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. It has been and still is in Roscoe, IL. The information you have about there only being 50 cars is incorrect. The first Tucker ever produced was a prototype sedan, known as the "Tin Goose". Fifty-eight frames and bodies were built at the factory. From these parts, 36 sedans were finished before the factory was closed. In addition, one prototype convertible known as "Vera" was started but not finished at the factory. Since the factory closed, an additional 14 sedans have been completed for a total of 51. The convertible is expected to be completed in May of 2009, pushing the total to 52. The car we have is body number 57, not 27 or 52.



    We have a letter from a verified Tucker Corporation accountant that reads “Dear Allan (previous owner), Long time no see. I hope your address hasn’t changed and this gets to you okay. Did you ever get the Tucker convertible finished? I would like to drive over and see it sometime. Give me a ring at 414-275-XXXX and tell me when it will be convenient to get together and bring each other up to date. Sincerely, Mel Koeppen”. We have paycheck stubs, tax withholding statements, and a picture of Mel Koeppen (the accountant mentioned above) in a newspaper from 1948 that further verifies he was an employee. “The Indomitable Tin Goose” (page 90 softback version and page 99 of the hardback version) verifies that #57 was in Tucker Corporation experimental department when the plant closed.#57 was mentioned in a “Tucker Topics”, the Tucker Automobile Club of America’s newsletter in 1994 as being a convertible. The person we bought the car from interviewed Tucker Corporation employees who said that they knew that the project existed when the plant closed. He is willing to sign sworn affidavits that outline his interviews.



    Let me know if you have any additional questions or concerns.



    Justin Cole, President

    Benchmark Classics, LLC

    5400 King James Way

    Madison, Wisconsin 53719

    608-275-3800 o, 608-658-0550 m, 608-275-3807 f
  • Aaron D. IL
    Posts: 1,648Platinum Member
    For about half that money you could probably build one from scratch. Personally though I don't think it looks as good as the Tucker sedans did. Tucker's book said he was trying to at least match the Hudson in comfort and features and that the company used one as a pace car.
  • Hud1105Hud1105
    Posts: 44Senior Contributor
    Thank You Nph1127.



    This is the information that should have been in the listing. To actually come out and say that they can obtain a sworn affidavit says a lot about their passion for this car.



    Let this be a lesson to those of us that hoard/hide cars. If this car had been more public, the current seller would not have had to deal with justification. I smell Barrett Jackson next Jan. I think they would pull far more than with ebay.
  • 46HudsonPU46HudsonPU
    Posts: 5,152Moderator
    Sarah Young wrote:
    My husband's been a member of the Tucker fan club for years and we have personally seen Tuckers #1007, 1016, and 1047 as well as the movie prop car in Ypsilanti. Although this may certainly be an authentic unfinished Tucker from when the plant shut down, it did not leave the Tucker Corp as a convertible... a 48 which had received alterations to window openings for a prospective 49 is more likely. Leftover parts and another Tucker to use as a model for recreating panels has probably been beneficial in this build. I think this is a neat project that's being misrepresented.

    There's a thread on the official Tucker site on this:
    http://www.tuckerclub.org/bbs3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=57&sid=dd7fcf62f6bac9bc0ddf21dd81878957

    P.S. I've changed my comp's desktop background to the converible Tucker picture and won't say a word about it until my husband goes to use the computer tonight and I see his reaction, lol. :)

    Go to the link that Sarah mentions (above), and read through the comments... There appears to be much controversy over this, in spite of the current owner's indication of documentation and evidence... I'm not too 'sold' that an accountant would be privy to product development either... As has been suggested, the convertible was probably a project started in someone's garage, made from parts and pieces of a sedan. They've got all these 'pay stubs', pictures of employees, and a 90+ year old former accountant who might have heard something about a car... - but no actual documentation concerning the car AT the factory (?), i.e., no photos, no drawings, or schematics from the factory?

    Any claim that cannot be fully documented should not be made, period.
    Why can't the guy just admit that they're taking parts-n-pieces, and making a convertible? :confused: Provenance by innuendo... Why? Just the speculation adds at least $2,000,000 to the price.
  • 66patrick6666patrick66
    Posts: 1,831Platinum Member
    Preston Tucker was having a difficult enough time putting together fifty-something REAL cars in order to satisfy some Federsl judge that the Tucker car was real and not a scam on investors. He surely would NOT have had the time, nor the inclination, to dally with the idea of building a ragtop while all this was going on, much less generate a prototype!



    I call this ragtop Tucker a hoax, plain and simple! The "seller" can wish for his $5M all day long, or even a half-million, and either way, he won't get it from any but the most gullible and unknowledgeable buyer, IMO. There is no "mystique" to anything here. When ALL of the particulars, all of the people actually involved in building Tuckers that have been asked; in this case have said clearly that NO convertible body, prototype, or even a thought of building one was considered, there isn't much of anything to debate here.



    This car should be called what it really is: a Tucker car built from leftover parts after the factory closed, and owner-fabricated parts, and made into a "what-if?" Tucker convertible concept. Nothing more. Then, the seller would have a much more honest presentation of what he has. The owner thinks he has $5M sitting there. Unfinished! Right.



    It may well be "built" from parts left over when the plant closed, but other than that, it's an incomplete Tucker sedan that has been modified as a ragtop, then hopelessly misrepresented as something it clearly is not. Anyone with even a little common sense and a rudimentary knowledge of the Tucker history can figure this one out.
    "The time has come", the Walrus said, "to speak of many things. Of shoes and ships and sealing wax, of cabbages and kings. And why the sea is boiling hot,
    And whether pigs have wings..."
  • hornet53hornet53
    Posts: 403Platinum Member
    Kinda like trying to sell an 85 Avanti to a Stude person. Except it is actually a Tucker...
    1953 Hornet sedan Twin-H
    Custom front springs, drop-blocks out back, Clifford 6-2 headers exiting out back shotgun style, Pertronix, and Flames!

    1964 Chevy C-10 Longbed, 396/TH400 lowered just enough and \"easy to touch up\" Black paint.

    2003 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor
    Caved in quarter and fender. Bad paint. Non-True-Trac heap. But it's paid for.
  • 51hornetA51hornetA
    Posts: 2,338Platinum Member
    I think a telling comment is when Alex Tremulis was asked about a convertible he said he had never heard of one. You would think Tuckers car designer might know about a convertible. I do not believe this secret project nonsense. How many times have we heard this. At the end Tucker was barely getting by I do not think he would waste the time and resources on a separate convertible project when he could not complete the cars he had. Also he was a safety nut and I cannot see a convertible fitting in with his theory of safety when he was out there promoting Tuckers ability to survive a rollover.
    www.hudsonmotorcar.org
  • Reijer
    Posts: 12Hitchhiker
    Here's an interview (video) with the current owner who's having it restored:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmzdamKcMHw



    The other videos this YouTuber has listed are worth watching too.
  • nhp1127nhp1127
    Posts: 2,275Platinum Member
    I think it is fake aswell. The only documentation the dealer can put forward is the offer of an signed affidadavit from some accountant who called it a "convertible". It means nothing. Parts car!
  • Old Bird
    Posts: 42Senior Contributor
    Even the letter from the accountant doesn't say that it was an original car:



    nhp1127 wrote:
    Did you ever get the Tucker convertible finished? I would like to drive over and see it sometime.



    All it says is that the owner is working on a convertible, not that the convertible was started at the factory. My question is, if you are expecting a car to sell for $5M, why would you wait until someone requests the verification to produce it. If I had that kind of money to spend on a car, I certainly wouldn't give it to someone who says: "yeah, I can get you that proof later." The seller must know that anyone willing to spend that money would demand proof first.



    If the guy isn't willing to do the work to get the verification before hand, he shouldn't be selling the car and listing it as a factory original.
  • 66patrick6666patrick66
    Posts: 1,831Platinum Member
    51hornetA wrote:
    I think a telling comment is when Alex Tremulis was asked about a convertible he said he had never heard of one. You would think Tuckers car designer might know about a convertible. I do not believe this secret project nonsense.



    Exactly!!!

    "The time has come", the Walrus said, "to speak of many things. Of shoes and ships and sealing wax, of cabbages and kings. And why the sea is boiling hot,
    And whether pigs have wings..."
  • Aaron D. IL
    Posts: 1,648Platinum Member
    Maybe this car is the owner's bailout money. LOL
  • rpmonroerpmonroe
    Posts: 295Gold Member
    Earlier in the thread I mentioned if you compare the close up photo's of the "5 mil. convertible" with the "Mich. auction convertible project" you'll see the metal imperfections. Noticeable areas are around the headlights (all three) , the area between the left front fender and hood and one very clear area about a third of the way back from the point of the hood on the right side of the hood lip.



    You'll notice also the irregular shape caused by damage to the right headlight opening in the fender has been disguised intentionally or otherwise by the addition of an added headlight ring in the photo of the "5 mil. convertible".
  • Sarah YoungSarah Young
    Posts: 511Platinum Member
    I thought I'd add a random comment to the mix... Did you know that Preston Tucker's family home is only a mile from Miller Motors in Ypsilanti?
    Take a Ride in a Hudson Jet!
  • hudsoncustomhudsoncustom
    Posts: 151Expert Adviser
    Interesting.



    There were some photos that turned up recently in the Life Mag archives that showed non-standard Tucker cars. Here's one of an unbuilt car with a large back window.



    http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=c24d9883afe9d8fa&q=Tucker%20Auto%20source:life&prev=/images%3Fq%3DTucker%2BAuto%2Bsource:life%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff
  • 66patrick6666patrick66
    Posts: 1,831Platinum Member
    Looks like the other Tuckers to me! Nothing special there, other than it was one of the unfinished cars when the plant closed.
    "The time has come", the Walrus said, "to speak of many things. Of shoes and ships and sealing wax, of cabbages and kings. And why the sea is boiling hot,
    And whether pigs have wings..."