ClassicCar

Marker345

The original advertising seems to show the car much lower than how they were manufactered. I would like to lower my '49 about 1 1/2" to make it look like it is in the old ads. ( see the K-Gap website ). Does anyone have any comments or reservations about clamping down the springs?

Ken U-Tx

The use of lowering blocks on the rear leaf springs can be hazardous. I had 2" lowering blocks on one of my Hudsons. One day I was rounding a sweeping curve at high speed when I hit a dip in the middle of the curve. The rear axle crashed upwards against the bump stops, the rear wheels became airborne momentarily, which allowed the rear of car to swing out before coming back down on the road. I nearly lost it. The next day I took the damned blocks out.

The arch in the rear middle frame rails above the rear axle is not really deep enough for the safe use of large lowering blocks. A few rodded Stepdowns that were fitted with airbags had the rear inner frame rails "C'd" to give more travel. The trunk floor above the axle had to be raised a corresponding amount. If your car has heavy duty rear springs, or had been re arched more than stock, then perhaps you could safely try 1" or 1-1/2" lowering blocks. Me, I usually have a trunk full of spares and tools for long cross country trips, so the weight was a factor also.

cailynne

Hi, the thing about the old ads are that they show the cars being longer and lower than they really are. I believe that it is pretty much like that on all the"artsy' car ads for many years. But, if you do want to lower your car do so to where you like it and where it is safe to drive. Good luck and have fun...Lisa G

52 kahuna

Like Ken says, lowering the rear can be difficult. I didn't like the fact that my Hornet looked like a 4X4, so I cut 1 1/4 rounds out of the front springs and installed 2" lowering blocks in the back. I like the ride height in the front, but had drivetrain problems with the rear, so I removed them, but God it looked cool. Seeing as I am thick headed, I think I will probably try 1" blocks sometime.

If you click on the path below you can see the ride heigth that I ended up with after taking the blocks back out. (Hopefully)

http://chaosgraphics.smugmug.com/gallery/2814757#151273224-L-LB

Lee ODell

52 kahuna wrote:

Like Ken says, lowering the rear can be difficult. I didn't like the fact that my Hornet looked like a 4X4, so I cut 1 1/4 rounds out of the front springs and installed 2" lowering blocks in the back. I like the ride height in the front, but had drivetrain problems with the rear, so I removed them, but God it looked cool. Seeing as I am thick headed, I think I will probably try 1" blocks sometime.

If you click on the path below you can see the ride heigth that I ended up with after taking the blocks back out. (Hopefully)

http://chaosgraphics.smugmug.com/gallery/2814757#151273224-L-LB

52 kahuna your car looks good. I know its no fun riding in a car that bottoms out . I'd like to see how it would look with 1" blocks. We met at the air show and had a nice visit. I hope you can bring your car to the Western Regional Meet at Yosemite April 16-18. It would be good to see you there. Have a nice day. Lee O'Dell

52 kahuna

Lee O'Dell wrote:

52 kahuna your car looks good. I know its no fun riding in a car that bottoms out . I'd like to see how it would look with 1" blocks. We met at the air show and had a nice visit. I hope you can bring your car to the Western Regional Meet at Yosemite April 16-18. It would be good to see you there. Have a nice day. Lee O'Dell

Lee, I remember meeting you there, and thanks for the complement!

I know this sounds wierd, but as the economy turns sour, my business gets "crazy" busy. I don't think I will be able to get out for the Regional Meet, but my new years resolution is to get out to more functions, farther away from Riverside, this year. I am just not getting a good start.

Terry

the best way to go for the rear of the car is to have the springs "de-arched" at a shop where they know how to do that sort of thing.

as far as the front,cutting coils is a good way to go,but i would start by cutting 1/2 a coil to start,and then drive the car for awhile and see how you like it,since it's a lot cheaper and easier to cut another half a coil,rather than order a new pair of springs.

Ken U-Tx

yorgatron wrote:

the best way to go for the rear of the car is to have the springs "de-arched" at a shop where they know how to do that sort of thing.

as far as the front,cutting coils is a good way to go,but i would start by cutting 1/2 a coil to start,and then drive the car for awhile and see how you like it,since it's a lot cheaper and easier to cut another half a coil,rather than order a new pair of springs.

De-arching the rear springs can still result in the rear axle bottoming out on the rubber bump stops in the "kick up" or arch of the rear inner frame rails, plus its not as cheap or easily reversible as lowering blocks.

Cutting the coils of a coil spring has the effect of increasing the spring rate, and you might be surprised at how little a change in ride height there is in cutting out a 1/2 or whole coil, and the resulting increase in ride stiffness. The proper way to reduce the ride height without altering the spring rate is to have springs made with the proper free standing height and spring rate. You can also have a shop reduce the free standing height of the existing springs by compressing them to the proper free standing height and re tempering them in an oven with proper slow cool-down.

Just thought I'd share what I have learned about suspension systems in general over the years. Kenneth

Hudson308

Ken U-Tx wrote:

De-arching the rear springs can still result in the rear axle bottoming out on the rubber bump stops in the "kick up" or arch of the rear inner frame rails, plus its not as cheap or easily reversible as lowering blocks.

Cutting the coils of a coil spring has the effect of increasing the spring rate, and you might be surprised at how little a change in ride height there is in cutting out a 1/2 or whole coil, and the resulting increase in ride stiffness. The proper way to reduce the ride height without altering the spring rate is to have springs made with the proper free standing height and spring rate. You can also have a shop reduce the free standing height of the existing springs by compressing them to the proper free standing height and re tempering them in an oven with proper slow cool-down.

Just thought I'd share what I have learned about suspension systems in general over the years. Kenneth

Sounds like sound advice, Kenneth. One of the things I like best about stepdowns is what a great road car they are. Some might scoff, but they remind me of the way a '65 Impala 283 'glide handled when they were fresh. I wanna drop the height a bit on my tub, but I DON'T want to ruin how it rides.

hornet53

I put 3" blocks on the back of my Hornet and put some leaf spring helpers on as well. It dropped it down and the helpers kept it from bottoming out to easily.

Do remember that the panhard bar will shift the axle over when you lower it.

Also, I got an extra set of coils to cut down but, I guess I got early Stepdown coils cause cutting 1 1/2 off took it right down to the suspension bumpers. Whoops.

Looks good though.

Tom Drew

Another way to lower the front that will allow some experimentation without cutting the springs, is to grind off the rivets that attach the spring pocket to the lower A arm, and insert spacers between the bottom surface of the A arm and the spring pocket, using Grade 8 bolts to reattach. This procedure effectively lowered the spring pocket in relation to the A arm. Fenton used to make these kits for various cars and did make a kit for the stepdowns. If I remember correctly, a 5/8" spacer lowered the front about 1 & 1/2 " with stock springs. You could always go back to stock by removing the spacers & bolting the spring pockets back to the A arm. Also easy to experiment with different width spacers to tune ride height.

Tom

Lee ODell

Tom Drew wrote:

Another way to lower the front that will allow some experimentation without cutting the springs, is to grind off the rivets that attach the spring pocket to the lower A arm, and insert spacers between the bottom surface of the A arm and the spring pocket, using Grade 8 bolts to reattach. This procedure effectively lowered the spring pocket in relation to the A arm. Fenton used to make these kits for various cars and did make a kit for the stepdowns. If I remember correctly, a 5/8" spacer lowered the front about 1 & 1/2 " with stock springs. You could always go back to stock by removing the spacers & bolting the spring pockets back to the A arm. Also easy to experiment with different width spacers to tune ride height.

Tom

Good suggestion Tom. I would like to add a note to Tom's helpful information. Use solid metal bar stock for spacers. I don't remember how many customers, over the years, brought their cars into my shop for a wheel alignment only to see square tubing used for spacers. Square tubing crushes. No matter how tight the bolts are they loosen up as the tubing crushes over time. One customer still put in square tubing even after I explained to him how to do the job. I asked him why he did it like that and his serious reply was "I had scrap tubing so I used it". I then asked him to come into the shop. I got some wrenches and had him double check the torque on the bolts. He was surprised when it took another two turns on the nuts to tighten the bolts. He changed the spacers after that. Have a good evening. Lee

SuperDave

I would never cut coils out of front springs unless i wanted a harsher ride. Removing one coil makes a significant increase in the spring rate.

I used some 1"bar stock to make rear lowering blocks. It was just enough to make the car sit level instead of drooping in front. Using the 1" stock worked better than I expected because it didn't require new U bolts. It would be a very simple job to go back to stock. I later replaced the front springs which put the front ride height back where it should be. Now the rear is just a tad lower. No bottoming out , ride is great and looks more like the Hudson ads.. LOL

Hugh's_Hornet

Tom Drew wrote:

Another way to lower the front that will allow some experimentation without cutting the springs, is to grind off the rivets that attach the spring pocket to the lower A arm, and insert spacers between the bottom surface of the A arm and the spring pocket, using Grade 8 bolts to reattach. This procedure effectively lowered the spring pocket in relation to the A arm. Fenton used to make these kits for various cars and did make a kit for the stepdowns. If I remember correctly, a 5/8" spacer lowered the front about 1 & 1/2 " with stock springs. You could always go back to stock by removing the spacers & bolting the spring pockets back to the A arm. Also easy to experiment with different width spacers to tune ride height.

Tom

Tom- that's a great tip. That's almost as good as having dropped spindles (which I don't suppose are available for stepdowns anyway) and your solution is much cheaper.

Tom Drew

Absolutely correct Lee, concerning the use of solid bar stock for the spacers. The Fenton kits I have seen used two sections of bar stock with slotted holes to allow for ease in bolting up. Grade 8 bolts too. We are talking about lots of force here and you don't want a fastener failure in this situation.

Tom

classictint

Air ride . . with a 3 link setup

[IMG]

Lee ODell

Thanks Tom. I've learned something new. I was not aware of the Fenton Kits. We always made our own kits when a customer wanted his car lowered with a good ride. That was time consuming. Most just want coil springs heated or cut because it was less costly. However, that results in harsher ride. Another thing to do when the car is lowered or raised is to have the alignment checked. When the height of the car is changed the alignment changes and the tires wear out quickly. Lee

DaveFury

Tom Drew wrote:

Another way to lower the front that will allow some experimentation without cutting the springs, is to grind off the rivets that attach the spring pocket to the lower A arm, and insert spacers between the bottom surface of the A arm and the spring pocket, using Grade 8 bolts to reattach. This procedure effectively lowered the spring pocket in relation to the A arm. Fenton used to make these kits for various cars and did make a kit for the stepdowns. If I remember correctly, a 5/8" spacer lowered the front about 1 & 1/2 " with stock springs. You could always go back to stock by removing the spacers & bolting the spring pockets back to the A arm. Also easy to experiment with different width spacers to tune ride height.

Tom

Well Tom, I took your advise and did the 5/8" spacers under the front coil spring cups which yielded 1 1/2" of drop., I also installed a 1" block on the leaf springs. The look and the ride is perfect! Handling is improved and no additional harshness or stiffness noticed whatsoever.

RL Chilton

Dave-

With the 1" block in the back, could you still use stock U-Bolts?

Also, can we side profile pic?

walts garage-53 · walts garage-53 September 2009 Posts: 1,470Platinum Member

Marker345 wrote:

The original advertising seems to show the car much lower than how they were manufactered. I would like to lower my '49 about 1 1/2" to make it look like it is in the old ads. ( see the K-Gap website ). Does anyone have any comments or reservations about clamping down the springs?

Just remember, when you lower the car you have to be very careful going over speed bumps, like too a crawl. If not, there goes the oil drain plug and then you have problems. The drain plug is the lowest part on a Hudson. Walt.

Lee ODell

Generally the first coil is close together. The other coils on the spring are spaced farther apart. Therefore, any coil cutting after the first coil will have a much greater affect on the ride height than the first coil.

Cutting 1/2 coil after the first coil will have as much or more additional drop than first coil.

Also, coil springs become weaker over miles and time and the same amount of cut between a weaker spring and a fresher spring will not produce the same amount of lowering.

A car with weaker will already be setting lower. It would be a good idea to verify your ride height to the ride height specifications of your car. Then determine how much to cut the coil spring.

Just sharing my personal experiences. Lee

DaveFury

RL Chilton wrote:

Dave-

With the 1" block in the back, could you still use stock U-Bolts?

Also, can we side profile pic?

Yup. With about 3/8" of u-bolt thread past the nuts. I'll try to get a pic today or tomorrow.

DaveFury

How's that?

Lee ODell

Dave, the ride height looks perfect. Your chop job made it look even better.

Lee

DaveFury

Lee O'Dell wrote:

Dave, the ride height looks perfect. Your chop job made it look even better.

Lee

Thanks, Yeah no matter what angle I took the picture, I could't get it to look as long as the brochure rendering. (So I stretched it a bit) Here's the unaltered pics:

Lee ODell

Dave, I like the color. What do you call it? Do you have the color code? It looks good at any angle.

Lee

DaveFury

It's a custom PPG DBC mix. I can e-mail you the formula if you'd like

Lee ODell

DaveFury wrote:

It's a custom PPG DBC mix. I can e-mail you the formula if you'd like

Thanks, I would appreciate it.

Lee

RL Chilton

Dave-

I think you nailed it! Ride height looks real good. Stepdowns just look odd to me if they're too high in the rear. The bottom edge between wheels should be level or slightly lower in the back.

Thanks for the pics.

46HudsonPU

Not having never cut springs before and knowing little about it, I have always wondered - If you want to cut a full coil, why not cut 1/2 of the coil, from each end (top and bottom)?

Seems to me that would keep the spring rate more consistent overall...

Lee ODell

46HudsonPU wrote:

Not having never cut springs before and knowing little about it, I have always wondered - If you want to cut a full coil, why not cut 1/2 of the coil, from each end (top and bottom)?

Seems to me that would keep the spring rate more consistent overall...

You are correct in that the spring rate would stay closer to stock by cutting a 1/2 coil on each end. However, the car would not set as low as cutting 1 coil.

I'll try to explain why. Each part of the spring has a slightly different spring rate. The springs are wound closer together at each end, but not usually the same, and wider spacing in the middle of the spring.

One wider spacing from one coil will have more lowering affect than 2 smaller spacings, because a full coil spacing is greater than (2) 1/2 coil cuts combined.

I'm not familiar with Hudson spring end shapes. But most coil springs have flat wire top coils and full wire diameter bottom coils.

The upper spring seat is usually flat where the lower spring seat (or saddle) has a dip for the end of the round coil spring to set in.

Also, when a coil is cut there is a very sharp edge left. I suggest grinding a radius on the end of the coil that makes contact with the lower spring saddle. I have seen a couple of lowered cars with the bottom coil sticking out of the saddle, because of the sharp, knife edge end on the spring that wore a hole through the saddle.

I agree that cutting one coil will make a spring firmer but I have never experienced any harsh or unpleasant ride quality because of that unless the car set so low the suspension bottomed out. The stiffer springs help to prevent bottoming out.

It seems the consensus is, that 1 coil cut from the springs for a Hudson is about right.

I hope my explanation is clearer than mud. Lee

DaveFury

RL Chilton wrote:

Dave-

I think you nailed it! Ride height looks real good. Stepdowns just look odd to me if they're too high in the rear. The bottom edge between wheels should be level or slightly lower in the back.

Thanks for the pics.

Thanks Russ. I agree, it's just about right.

Lee ODell

Marker345 wrote:

The original advertising seems to show the car much lower than how they were manufactered. I would like to lower my '49 about 1 1/2" to make it look like it is in the old ads. ( see the K-Gap website ). Does anyone have any comments or reservations about clamping down the springs?

Marker345, I must apologize for getting sidetracked and not answering"reservations about clamping down the springs?"

I must say there have been many hundreds of cars lowered with J hooks and multiple clamps to get the desired ride height.

However, there is a down side, and that is a harsher ride than cutting a coil.

The clamped coils limit the movement of compression and rebound for the springs to function properly.

It is the least expensing method but not one I would choose. I do not like the ride quality nor do I like to see coil springs looking deformed.

I'm sorry I missed the point of your question earlier and I hope my answer is of some use to you.

Lee

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