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In this Discussion
- Bopo12 June 2009
- coverton February 2010
- Hudzilla July 2009
- JasonNC March 2008
- Lee ODell February 2012
- Martin200 January 2011
- Nevada Hudson July 2009
- nhp1127 December 2009
- Turbopackman June 2009
Early NASCAR Kaiser
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FYI
Period rare Picture during an early NASCAR Race in '51 or '52....
...Ol racer
Picture from Rudy Bennett collection
Kaiser_120485215148464.JPG914 x 598 - 76K -
That's an interesting picture. Do you have any idea as to where this picture was taken?
Jason -
Holy cow... THAT'S a first... A Kaiser beating a Hudson?!? :eek: Either that or the Hudson is about to pass the Kaiser on the inside... :mad: although those Hudsons did weigh a LOT in comparison to the Kaiser. The '51 Kaiser club coupes weighed just shy of 3100 pounds (the car shown is the regular two-door; it has the rear vent window, club coupes did not), and although the Hudson 308 had 82 cubic inches on the Kaiser's 226, I can imagine what the unit-bodied Hudson weighs, even the coupes. Power-to-weight ratios DO make a BIG difference... And I read that the Gen II Kaiser has about as low a ground clearance as the Hudson, and are VERY well suspended; I know my '54 Manhattan can corner REAL well. So it's not implausible, when you put all these factors together, that a light, nimble Gen II Kaiser with overdrive and the right rear end could possibly beat a Hudson, especially if the Hudson in question is not a Twin-H Hornet.
"Problems are merely opportunities in workclothes." -Henry J. Kaiser -
Martin200 wrote:Holy cow... THAT'S a first... A Kaiser beating a Hudson?!? :eek: Either that or the Hudson is about to pass the Kaiser on the inside... :mad: although those Hudsons did weigh a LOT in comparison to the Kaiser. The '51 Kaiser club coupes weighed just shy of 3100 pounds (the car shown is the regular two-door; it has the rear vent window, club coupes did not), and although the Hudson 308 had 82 cubic inches on the Kaiser's 226, I can imagine what the unit-bodied Hudson weighs, even the coupes. Power-to-weight ratios DO make a BIG difference... And I read that the Gen II Kaiser has about as low a ground clearance as the Hudson, and are VERY well suspended; I know my '54 Manhattan can corner REAL well. So it's not implausible, when you put all these factors together, that a light, nimble Gen II Kaiser with overdrive and the right rear end could possibly beat a Hudson, especially if the Hudson in question is not a Twin-H Hornet.
The Kaiser probably has a Twin-H 308 in it!.... -
Martin. Lets look at the record books. Sadly, there was no way a 226 ci Continental engine had a snowball's chance in Hell to beat that 308Hudsonwith or without twin H. The smallest ci engine Hudson was making at the time was a 232 used in their bottom of the line car the Pacemaker and that was still bigger than the top of the line Kaiser. Dutch Darrin had a really nice design in the second generation Kaiseres but they didn't stand a chance on the track sad to say.
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Nice Kaiser, but the Hornet is probally lapping it in that photo. Too bad Kaiser did not buy 308's from Hudson, it would have helped both companies.
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Look at the way the Kaiser is leaning Vs the Hudson. This cornering is very typical of why the Hudson Hornet totally dominated racing for so many years PLUS they had the power to beat the V8's aswell. I'd say the Kaiser was probably picking up lunch for one of the pit crews....
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Its really sad that 'THEY' did not hire David Potter and produce a 3" stroke V-8 and keep on winning.
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In the NASCAR ENCYCLOPEDIA THE COMPLETE RECORD OF AMERICA'S MOST POPULAR SPORT there is no record of Kaiser winning a race. I could not find what position a Kaiser finished.
However, there are records of all the drivers and how they finish within the top 10. Unfortunately, the book does not put together drivers to cars raced.
So, if anyone knows the Kaiser drivers names I can look in the book to see how well they did. If anyone is interested.
Lee -
Does anyone know if a stock Kaiser won any races at a local track? That would be interesting to know.
I'll stick my kneck out and say no. But I may be wrong and have to eat crow. I'll wait and see.
Lee -
Ol racer wrote:FYI
Period rare Picture during an early NASCAR Race in '51 or '52....
...Ol racer
Picture from Rudy Bennett collection
Ol racer, that is a neat picture. It is not the Kaiser model I remember seeing as a kid growing up. My neighbor had a (49-50?) plain jane model.
I did run across some information about a Kaiser racing at the Carrell Speedway in Gardena, Ca., on Nov 11, 1951. It was a 1/2 mile dirt track. The Driver was Eric Erickson and he was the 3rd place finisher.
I don't know what the city Gardena look like in 1951 but maybe this is it. I do know, back then, there was great expances of enpty land between cities. Now you can't tell when you leave one city and enter another around here.
Another Kaiser driver, Dick Linder, finished in 2nd place on Oct 2, 1949. This race was at Heidelburg Raceway, Pittsburg, Pa. on a 1/4 mile dirt track.
Anyone else know of Kaisers racing history? Please share.
Have a good day. Lee -
All I know is that my '54 Manhattan with the McCulloch supercharger (140 hp) and 3-speed with overdrive (stock 4.55:1 Dana rear end) is no slouch, and that's a 4-door sedan at 3400 pounds. The club/business coupes were several hundred pounds lighter. Maybe the '51 Kaisers couldn't have dusted off a '51 Hudson, but I think with the right gears they could have at least kept up. What I have read, from KF club members who have owned the club coupes, is that they DID dust off many other comparable 6-cylinder cars, like Dodge, Plymouth and Chevrolet, largely due to the better power-to-weight ratios the Kaiser club coupes had. Certainly there is little or no substitute for cubic inches; however, I still believe power-to-weight is a very large part of the equation.
Now had old man Kaiser decided to go ahead with perfecting their 288-cubic-inch V-8 prototype and nixed the Henry J project, I think we'd all be singing a different tune. I know a few people who have modestly modified Kaisers with Chevy 283s in them, and they are outstanding performers"Problems are merely opportunities in workclothes." -Henry J. Kaiser -
Sounds like you have a nice performing Manhattan. Do you have some time slips to share with us. ET and MPH in the 1/4 mile. I would like to see some pictures of your car and the supercharged engine.
Lee O'Dell
P.S. Kaiser had ample opportunities to prove you right but I could only find two top 10,s for the 51 season. Lee Petty did a better job with the power/wt in a Ply than Kaiser did. Petty had 19 top 10's in 1951 and one win. Ply had 2 wins, Hudson had 12 wins, and Olds had 20 wins. -
Some new old information on Kaiser's 226 engine. It weighed 25 pounds more then Hornets 308 engine. That sure didn't help Kaiser's cornering ability.
Kaiser 226 engine 675 lbs
Hudson 308 engine 650 lbs
Lee O'Dell
