ClassicCar

Hudson308

Anybody out there have a good used overdrive relay for a '48-51 they're willing to peddle? I also need the ice cube-shaped switch at the rear of the transmission. :confused:

Park_W

The '48-'49 relays are quite different and are wired differently from '50 and later. Which do you need? Are you running 6v or 12v?

Clutch guy

Hudson 308,as Park has mentioned here,it depends on which system you are using.The 48-9 type has a 3 wire solenoid,this is required for proper operation,the 50 and up is a 2 wire solenoid.To protect the O/dr.,you should plan to wire the system thru the governor!!! The governor opens the ground circuit at slow speed,anywhere from about 18 to 22 mph.,in turn making the solenoid kick out.This is how you should plan to wire it!!! If you use just a toggle switch to turn the solenoid on,and you forget to cut it off when you stop,it will be very hard on the planetary!!!!! The o/dr.is not really designed to take off in and if you do,it makes it wear rapidly.Also as Park spoke about,there are many ways to wire the system all of which are on several websites.Hope this helps.

Hudson308

Thanks for the advice, guys; I need the '48-49 style. I certainly would have wired it through the governor. What I don't like wiring into the system is the coil cutout. I prefer to let off the accelerator myself to engage the overdrive, ensuring full engagement before resuming speed. Some of the cars I've ridden in with the auto-cutout tended to grind or thunk into overdrive as coil power was being restored.

Any chance you can help me out with the relay and/or switch? This is a stock 6V system.

Billy K.TN.

I may be mistaken as most times I am. I believe the coil cuts out when the accelerator is floored to disengage the overdrive. Not when the accelerator is released to go back into overdrive.

Park_W

308, Billy's correct. The ignition cutout only comes into play when you're already in OD and you hit the kickdown switch. You always have to let off the gas to allow it to go into OD once you're above governor cut-in speed. Re: the relay question, if you've got a complete installed system and just the relay is bad, then finding another '48-'49 type relay makes sense. If you're having to do more than that, I'd change over to the '50 and later wiring scheme, which is much simpler and requires a pretty "generic" type relay, not the special complex type needed for '48-'49. The only other thing you need for the changeover is a changeout of the kickdown switch to the later type, which has 4 terminals instead of 2. NAPA and some other places have these. Ask for kickdown switch for something like '55-'57 Ford. Wiring diagram for the '50 and later system is in the shop manual and available from other sources as well.

Hudson308

Thanks, Park; the coil cutout info is helpful and enlightening. I'm trying to make this OD installation look as close to factory as is practical, so I'd really prefer to find the '48-49 style relay, reverse lockout switch and kickdown switch. Sounds like the Ford kickdown you're describing has more terminals than I want. I see the kickdown switches on eBay once in awhile, but rarely see the overdrive relays or lockout.

mars55

Hudson308 wrote:

Thanks, Park; the coil cutout info is helpful and enlightening. I'm trying to make this OD installation look as close to factory as is practical, so I'd really prefer to find the '48-49 style relay, reverse lockout switch and kickdown switch. Sounds like the Ford kickdown you're describing has more terminals than I want. I see the kickdown switches on eBay once in awhile, but rarely see the overdrive relays or lockout.

The reverse lockout switch, Overdrive Rail Switch or Switch-overdrive control is the same for all Hudson Overdrives 1948 - 1954. Part Number 301755. The Jeepsterman offers this switch

http://www.thejeepsterman.com/shopexd.asp?id=1790

Hudson308

Thanks, Steve! I ordered one this morning. Now I'm halfway there... just need to find the (main) Overdrive Relay.

hudsonkid

Park W wrote:

308, Billy's correct. The ignition cutout only comes into play when you're already in OD and you hit the kickdown switch. You always have to let off the gas to allow it to go into OD once you're above governor cut-in speed. Re: the relay question, if you've got a complete installed system and just the relay is bad, then finding another '48-'49 type relay makes sense. If you're having to do more than that, I'd change over to the '50 and later wiring scheme, which is much simpler and requires a pretty "generic" type relay, not the special complex type needed for '48-'49. The only other thing you need for the changeover is a changeout of the kickdown switch to the later type, which has 4 terminals instead of 2. NAPA and some other places have these. Ask for kickdown switch for something like '55-'57 Ford. Wiring diagram for the '50 and later system is in the shop manual and available from other sources as well.

I would love if someone could describe the absolute correct way to wire a NAPA 4 prong switch. I still don't think mine is wired properly. I also think I'm going to pull the solenoid, and govenor, to make sure they are functioning properly, but when I get mine to speed, and engage the OD, nothing. But when I floor it, and hit the kickdown, it cuts out. (so I think the coil interruption is correct, right?)

At this point, I wish I would have searched for an original 4 prong switch, to take variance out of the equation.

As far as the relay, I search for some time, hudsondad turned one up, and I was able to find a spare NOS one at the local Carlisle meet, this past October, for like $20, which seemed like a fair deal.

Hudson308

Yeah... $20.00 NOS relay... I'll take two!

Diagnosing your overdrive woes may take a bit. Wiring diagrams are available on eBay and other sources fairly regularly, and that's where I'd start. The quick answer is that the coil side of the relay has all these switches in series with either the "hot" (-) or ground (+) side of the coil itself. Once all the proper conditions (adequate speed, 2nd or 3rd gear selected, overdrive control engaged, etc.) are met, the relay coil energizes and closes contacts which send power to the O.D. engagement pawl. I could email you a schematic of how my other (12V) Hudson's OD is wired, but it ain't factory. Been working great for over 7 years, though.

BDN54

Studebaker International just came out with new, not NOS, relays for 6v cars and trucks, I'm sure they are the same as Hudson, as they both used BW OD.

SI's phone # is 317-462-3124.

The relay part #: 523297, the cost is steep-$95, but again, these are new units.

Bruce

Yakima, Wa

Hudson308

Thanks, Bruce; Might be a last resort option if I can't find a good used one.

Clutch guy

hudsonkid wrote:

I would love if someone could describe the absolute correct way to wire a NAPA 4 prong switch. I still don't think mine is wired properly. I also think I'm going to pull the solenoid, and govenor, to make sure they are functioning properly, but when I get mine to speed, and engage the OD, nothing. But when I floor it, and hit the kickdown, it cuts out. (so I think the coil interruption is correct, right?)

At this point, I wish I would have searched for an original 4 prong switch, to take variance out of the equation.

As far as the relay, I search for some time, hudsondad turned one up, and I was able to find a spare NOS one at the local Carlisle meet, this past October, for like $20, which seemed like a fair deal.

Kid,you need to do a few other simple test to check the integrity of the system.First verify the governor is working.It and the solenoid are probably the 2 items I find bad all the time.50% of the time you can file the points in the solenoid and it works again.The governor needs to be removed and tested on the bench.Use a continuity tester and a drill,spin it at speed and see if it makes connection.If it does,inspect hte speedo gear before re-installing it.Remember,if the yoke nut on the output shaft is loose,it does not tighten the speedo gear up and just lets it spin free.If the speedo does not operate,question the gear.Stick your finger in the hole when the governor is out and see if you can turn the gear,if you can,the gov.is probably not turning and can cause the O/D not to work.I know this doesn't answer your question about the wiring of the NAPA kick-down,but these are checks to perform.If you send the switch to me,I'll write you a diagram of how to wire it.

Hudson308

Park;

You wouldn't happen to have a NAPA P/N for that 4-prong kickdown switch, would ya? The guy at my NAPA says he doesn't list one for a '55-57 Ford (or a '50-54 Hudson either, for that matter). Looks like these OD peripherals would have made a valid entry for the "hardest Hudson parts to find" string last month. The 2-prong kickdown switch and the early (48-49) OD relay must be made of unobtainium.

mars55

Hudson308 wrote:

Park;

You wouldn't happen to have a NAPA P/N for that 4-prong kickdown switch, would ya? The guy at my NAPA says he doesn't list one for a '55-57 Ford (or a '50-54 Hudson either, for that matter). Looks like these OD peripherals would have made a valid entry for the "hardest Hudson parts to find" string last month. The 2-prong kickdown switch and the early (48-49) OD relay must be made of unobtainium.

The NAPA part number for the kickdown switch is 6284 and yes their catalog lists this switch under '57 Ford. This is where I got this number. You can use this switch in '48-'49 Hudsons by using two of the connections. Here is a thread for more OD parts.

http://www.classiccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12424&highlight=kickdown+switch

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