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In this Discussion
- JT1940 August 2007
- redron July 2007
- THEGREENHORNET June 2007
- Turbopackman July 2007
One More Time
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Over 2 months ago i asked if anyone here knew of a change in rear end gears to lower the RPMs on the engine. Over 140 views and not 1 reply.
Well now I have another problem. Lets see if I get any responses to this question.
While coming home from a car show, I had to slow down because a motorcycle got in front of me. I immediatly noticed a ticking coming from the engine compartment of my 1940 120. I pulled over and the engine was missing and wobbling and clacking like crazy. A quick look and we slowly made it home.
the sound is coming from around #1 cylinder and the water pump area.
I did a compression check, Arced each plug, checked the wiring and distributer - everything is ok.
Someone on the Hudson site here suggested the snubber could be broken inside the timing chain cover. I used a stethascope and the noise is not coming from there.
I live in a condo that will not allow me heavy duty mechanical work, so it must go to a shop for repair. I've spent 2 weeks and hundreds of phone calls trying to find a mechanic that knows flathead 8s. I might have to have it towed to a museum in Oxnard CA to get it done.
My new question is - does the 1940 flat head 8 have HYDROLIC LIFTERS?
I have been told it does but the language in the owners manual only says - PRESSURE LUBRICATED MUSHROOM TYPE LIFTERS.
I havent been to High School Auto Shop in 46 years. Can anyone here tell me - is that a yes or a no?
I ordered the Service Tech Manual but Kanter sent me the Owners Manual. With the car being 67 years old I really don't have to worry to much about 10000 mile tune ups and how to clean spots off the seats anymore.
Waiting to hear from someone
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what is your compression in all 8 cylinders? is it consistant all the way across? i noticed your in valencia, well im in palmdale, i know some great guys that work on flat heads and im not to bad myself. -john
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Hi John I'm told that R&S Auto has a man on staff that knows what hes doing here in Newhall. I'm gonna go talk to him in the morning.
Compression front to rear was #1 = 105, #2 = 112, #3 = 110, #4 = 105, #5 = 112, #6 = 95, #7 = 95, #8 = 100
Note #6 & #7 pumped up in stages - possible head gasket leak or loose head bolts. I was going to change the head gasket soon, but the noise is coming from between #1 piston and the water pump area.
While waiting to park at the Custom Car Cover Show sunday before last, it did overheat almost to the last line on the guage. When I turned it off only about a cup came out of the overflow. After the show it ran great for nearly 5 miles until the ticking started. It was missing but the ticking sound only happened when at a idle or decelerating. It smoothes out at slightly higher RPMs but I can notice a lack of power.
From what I've been told today only the Super 8s had hydralic lifters - this is only a 1801 model. I'm at a loss - maybe a broken valve spring - I just don't know. Any suggestions would help.
Thanks for the reply
Ron -
i was thinking that if you have locking pind on your rings one of the pins might have push its way up and smashed up on the bottom of the head. i have a few that have done that. let me know if you cant fine a mechanic, i will talk to a few people. i just left gene winfields shop, he might have a few ideas. or ed at r&e racing, but hes an ass hole. theres a few other guys i know. i wouls say the two best people to talk to are bill albrite or gene winfield. i will be at thunder on the lot in lancaster this weekend. drop me a P.M. if you need some phone numbers. -john
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Hi John I've talked to Bill Albrite he recomender the Packard Club in Santa Ana. I contacted them and they said to call the Murphy Museum in Oxnard. Mike their mechanic can do it but hes backed up right now and I was hoping for someone a little closer to home so i can have some input, and keep an eye on the baby.
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Well R & S Auto turned out to be a waste of money - After 3 days all they did was another compression test and told me I need a new engine because of all the carbon build up in the cylinders and they spotted a puff of steam in #3 on 1 out of 4 tries.
When I got the car the auto choke was not hooked up and the fuel mixture was set extremly rich so it would start cold, but wouldn't start when warm till it cooled back down. I've only driven the car aprox 40 miles since the choke was fixed and from the condition of the old plugs - yea there still should be a lot of carbon in there, Soooooooooo after another $57 tow fee shes back home and the grandson and me decided to do it ourselves. Lets add it up Tow to R & S $53 plus Inspection fee from R & S $107.50 plus Tow home fee $57 = $217.50
- wish us luck. -
Get your car warmed up, then take a squirt bottle, like a Windex bottle, filled with water, and squirt it down the carb while the engine is running a very fast idle. Do this until the bottle is empty. Do squirt too fast, as you don't want to lock the engine, you just want to make enough steam to get all the carbon out of the chambers. This works, I've done it many times before.
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Thanks Turbopackman At this point I'll try almost anything. Last time I got this far into an engine was 45 years ago in High School Auto Shop. I think when this is over I'm going to start a Packard Club here in Santa Clarita.
There may only be 2 members "my grandson & me" but ya gotta start somewhere. Hahahahahaha -
I took your advice Turbopackman - squirted a full 32 onces down the carb. I'll probably be pulling the head off this weekend. According to the mechanic all cylinders had a lot of carbon build up. I was surprised I was expecting a mess of black water out the tail pipe but nothing came out. It took me almost 15 minuets and my fingers on both hands are dead from all that trigger pumping. I'll post what I find when the head comes off.
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There should have been something black coming out of the tailpipe if it really was full of carbon. I've also heard of pouring a quart of ATF, like Dexton, in the gas tank on a full tank. Supposedly, the detergents in the ATF clean it out too, but I would think it would make it worse. I've never tried it though. I like the "steam cleaning" affect of the water.
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we pulled the valve covers and sure nuff #1 intake spring is broken - we started it up and no other problems were found. So far we have drained the radiator and will be removing the nuts on the head in the morning. gonna try to turn it over to losen the head. Does anyone know if the head nuts should be losened backwards from the tightening sequence?
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Heads off - we suspected a problem between #6 & #7 on the first compression test, those two clyinders pumped up in stages - sure nuff theres a burn mark on the old head gasket between them.
Turbopackmans water spray treatment worked great - little or no carbon deposits. Much cleaned than the old plugs I changed out 2 months age. they were fowled with sooth deposits. Gonna order the intake spring monday and start putting her back together.
To those of you that helped Thank You -
I Guess That Would Explaine Why 6 And 7 Had The Same Compression. Duh, Stupid Me For Not Even Thinking Of That. Well Besides The Tow Its An Easy Inexpensive Fix. Good Luck. -john
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Hi just an update.
The new spring arrived and as luck would have it "Murphys Law" My grandson has dropped the valve spring keeper down a oil return hole and it went straight into the oil pan. I've ordered a couple of new ones, but the job is on hold waiting on .30 cents worth of parts again. We were going to pull the pan but that turned into a nightmare because some of the pan bolts are almost impossible to get at. We found many of them were only finger tight so at least we fixed that leak problem that keeps the oil spot on my garage floor.
Egge Machine Co. of Santa Fe Springs promised me the keepers by tuesday so its back to the waiting game.
I'm gonna coat my grandsons fingers with peanut butter for the next go around. -
Hey the keepers came monday - perfect exact match to old ones. We did a little research and found out 5 of the valves have pins in them and the rest have the keepers. The one with the keepers actually belong on the 1941 engines, so this must not have been the first time this problem occured. All we have to do now is finish adjusting the rest of the valves and put it back together.
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323 views and only 14 replies - most are my postings here. I guess I'm the only Packard owner that is out of class. OMG Yes I do my own mechanic work when I can or have to.
Sorry but I'm not wealthy enough to have a full time mechanic on staff. I wish I would have bought a Hudson. At least they talk to each other on their site. -
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If you are still having an overheating problem you need to pull the expansion plugs from the block and flush out as much as possible. With plugs removed you can dig around water jacket with a wire to help loosen crud as you flush.
If you have a bad or blocked water distribution tube you'll need to pull the front clip to remove tube from behind water pump.
