ClassicCar

huddy55

I will give him a call this week and see how I go. I just tell him the facts that there is no money to be made here at all. At worst to cover the costs.

half baked

thanks steve- stuart

just out of interest, the foundry i have in mind cast in magnesium as their main line, cant hurt to ask about that....

`Hudsonator

For all you "down under" Hudsonites, that Gibson-Binks stuff is a great legacy. I'd be after that type speed equipment moreso than the Edmunds.

Pity the pattern holder is of the mindset he obviously is. Perhaps something can be worked out.

Mark

huddy55

I will try to speak to my brother tonight... as he has the number for Tim, Tim is the owner of these rare moulds. What I mean (try) is that my twin brother Jeff is on his honeymoon. He got married on the 07-07-07, it was a great Hudson wedding too. I did speak to Jeff yesterday afternoon when he'd called me from his mobile. Tim's number may be at Jeff's home but I give it a shot. I got my hand up for a set or 2 myself. I can imagine a least 20 others will too. The last time I spoke to Tim was 18 months ago on a previous trip to Sydney. He currently owns a 1968 Aussie Assembled Javelin with 343 power.

huddy55

Fresh news hopefully by this weekend on these moulds.

My 55 needs more go....like to get 110mph plus...hehe

half baked

my 51 has been up to 80 something with a crook ford 250 in it so im itching to see what it will do with a hopped 308 in it

huddy55

bloody ford engines...F....O....R....D....? Every aussie knows what this means!

half baked

yeh it was a rescue job to get that anchor outta there!

got some interest from Harrop on casting, they will give a quote after seeing what the patterns are like. detailed photos will suffice. the big if is if they will be set loose on society

`Hudsonator

If you can get permission on using the patterns, get a quote on the cylinder head too.

half baked

i actually saw the ex clive gibson (or at least i am pretty certain it was) 54 superwasp out on the road today, it was a rare nice winter day today and i was super excited- i have NEVER seen another hudson out on the road, EVER!

huddy55

where did you see it, Clive actually owned two Black 54 Superwasp at the same time. The one with the Gibson Bink head is located in Taree NSW, the other is in Sydney. I think he also owned another black at one stage. Clive like the 54 stepdown. A light blue that is owned by Steve Conyers resides in Victoria again owned by Clive many years ago.

Regards

half baked

must not have been then, this was near footscray in melbourne.

i have seen steve's collection of hudsons though, that hollywood is a knockout

huddy55

G'day all

I spoke to Jeff (my Twin Bro) tonight. He very much enjoyed his honey moon. At the moment he is trying to get his Matador X ready for the road as it has been off the road since 1995. Nice car with only 89.000 kms on the speedo. Well anyway Jeff will give Tim a call in the next day or two regarding the moulds for the Gibson Bink head and manifold. I'm not sure what he is going to say to him but I hope he can purchase them through his business. If so it will be wonderful. I keep you guys informed.

Regards

half baked

during my visit with steve conyers yesterday the gibson patterns popped up in conversation. he didn't have much hope in getting them out to see the light of day and he reckons he's been trying for a good 20 years... yikes

`Hudsonator

half baked wrote:

during my visit with steve conyers yesterday the gibson patterns popped up in conversation. he didn't have much hope in getting them out to see the light of day and he reckons he's been trying for a good 20 years... yikes

That's really unfortunate.

And, kinda rediculous.

Mark

half baked

still, im not ready to give up. if we put up a united front i think we could manage it

`Hudsonator

half baked wrote:

still, im not ready to give up. if we put up a united front i think we could manage it

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you.

Keep at 'em.

Mark

PaceRacer50

You think if we round up some demand for some intakes & heads it may

make him give in?

Lets face it if enough guys are willing to commit to an intake and head if

it helps matters.

I for one would like to have one intake and cylinder head providing they are

resonable cost wise. There has to be way more guys out there that would

also be willing to commit up front if it helps.

PaceRacer50

half baked

ok, last night i heard of a guy in here in melbourne that is making his own quick change axles. i've asked my source to do a little more sniffing about what he actually does, this could be our low volume, non ferrous casting solution to get the intakes and heads cast, if the patterns ever see the light of day

`Hudsonator

From what I can tell, the intake looks like an Edmunds knock off. Nothing all that special there.

What would sell, would be a Twin-H copy with provision for something besides a single barrel. Perhaps dual 2 barrels or a small pattern similiar to the Clifford 4 barrel manifold. Flexibility with a dang well proven runner design. I'd be in line for that in a heartbeat.

The Gibson-Binks head, that is unique and evidently effective if they sealed 12 psi of boost under it.

Next month the 7x exhaust adapters are scheduled to be poured. I'm anxious to see how that will go.

Mark

Ol racer

Hi,

Just wondering if anyone is modifing any Hornet Motors this winter?

maasfh

Yep--may put a belt drive on my '41 this winter and a Ron's fuel injection

Randy

Ol racer

Randy,

That sounds real 'Trick' and may really enhance the Torque output... I been researching TBI set-ups for the same reason.... Good Luck

Ron P

Hey Joe C...............you Still Around And Driving Your Hudson Truck ???????????????

`Hudsonator

maasfh wrote:

Yep--may put a belt drive on my '41 this winter and a Ron's fuel injection

Randy

I'd like to hear some more about this.

`Hudsonator wrote:

I'd like to hear some more about this.

Mark, here is some info on the injection sys:

http://www.ronsfuel.com/

`Hudsonator

54 HSWH wrote:

Mark, here is some info on the injection sys:

http://www.ronsfuel.com/

Interesting stuff.

I would have thought Randy to be more interested in a Weber compatible throttle body system. I'll save the Ron's link, you never know?

http://www.twminduction.com/ThrottleBody/ThrottleBody2900-FR.html

Since my Hudson project has bogged down due to economics, I'm allowing myself to dream. This type of individual runner system under forced induction and electronicly managed would be my ultimate dream.

Dany Spring gave a link to TVM wayyyy back when I was only discussing on Inliners.com (several years ago now) - I've kept up with TVM since. Who knows, one of these days?

Mark

half baked

mark, the photo from TWM that got my mind on the run was the one of the throttle bodies with the bosh K-Jetronic injectors plugged in. one of the classes im interested in running at the strip (a long time from now- like you finances are limited) forbids electronic injection. what they have effectively done is turn it onto a cheap version of a hilborn, with the air flow "paddle" out of the system it has no load metering capability. what they have done is confusing the heck out of me and i like it!

half baked

i just found this photo on another board,this is a cnc machined two piece head for 337 lincolns. the interesting thing here is the undercutting of the valve relief. as i understand it, there is some hand finishing to be done yet. i wonder if it really helps the airflow around the valve, or if its just creating a dead spot and losing compression. my airflow theory is dusty dusty dusty (i havent used it much since i was a motocross mad teenager) but slowing the airflow should pick up some mid range torque. Mark this could be of benefit (move the power back down the range) on those longer intakes we discussed. hard to say until you have a go at it!

`Hudsonator

Mike Davidson, in his flathead book series "Flathead Fever", measured a flow loss with the "eyebrow" head relief just as you have pictured.

To my knowledge, nobody has flow tested a flathead with the time and effort Mike has. He even casted a transparent resin head, with appropriate chamber profile, to test flow patterns etc.

However, I've also talked with Randy about this and he says relieving behind the valve turns the Hudson loose. I'm not sure if it was a typical "eyebrow" relief or not. I kinda believe it was an "unshrouding" relief and not the two-cut type as is in your picture. Randy is much more qualified to speak for himself - obviously (I hope he chimes in).

Mike Davidson is an Aussie. You may well be able to speak to him directly. He and I carried on a good e-mail conversation a few years ago now on these topics. He is a fan of the Hudson, but dedicated to the smaller flathead Fords. He has never flow tested a Hudson and said that what works on a Ford, may not be the ticket for the Hudson. Only some Hudson specific research would prove what worked and what wouldn't.

To my knowledge, nobody has flow tested a Hudson engine. If they have, they've sure kept it a secret.

A link to Mike Davidson's website

http://flatattackracing.com/

Mark

half baked

bit of a bump up the list since randy still hasnt seen this.

maybe the eyebrow relief, if done in moderation (enough to keep a good radius) would improve flow around the valve. there is always the trade off of lost compression though

maasfh

When relieving around the side and back of the valve (manifold side) make a perfect round straight cut. Forget the radius on the bottom. I use a seat cutter on a winona head shop to do this. Works for me-may not work for you (disclaimer). Loss of compression is less than 1/2 cc. Milling the head .003 would make up the difference. Passing on my secrets--no charge.

Randy

Ol racer

FYI

This may be an appropiate Thread to attached a few pictures of a project that I have been working on (& off) several yrs building a highly modified Hornet Motor similar to one that I stock car raced all during the '60's in this Tri State Area, but updated with some modern technology, then installing into a lightened Stepdown painted identical to one I drove (and raced in high school) to occassionally drag race. I set aside this winter to finish this project and begining to see closure....however It is not a show Car.

I was pleased to learn that after decades away from from building my last modified Hornet Motor that others had and still were racing Hornets and modern updates were now available. The distributor conversion was from Ron Fellows (clutch man) working on Fred Hawthorn's dragster. The oiling, head, and cooling Mods, (posted on this Thread) by Rudy Bennett, were helpful as were the availability of modern racing Parts (and advice) from Randy Maas .....

Briefly the Block is bored, stroked, Decked, balanced, large valves, wide deep Relief, Triple 2GC Carb setup, NOS, Clifford Headers, ARP Fastners, modified Clifford aluminum head, Isky 446 Cam, Maas dbl roller Chain, HEI Ign, MSD 7AL Electronic Box, Custom Damper, lightened flywheel, B&M Race converter, Maas Adapter, Modified 'race only' Turbo Trans, Ratchet Shifter, Shiftnoid (TBD), narrowed 9'Ford Rear with Spool & 31 spline axles, Individual plumbed Air Shocks, Traction Bars, Mag wheels, M&H Slicks, Goodyear 4" front Drag tires on vintage Fenton mags.

Additionally, the Chassis is severly gutted to lighten with polycarbonate windows,(except windshield), aluminum seat, sub-frame connectors, moly roll cage. Line Loc, small fuel Cell, rear Battery, Kill Sw, GM driveshaft, Safety Strap, etc.

My ET/Speed expectations are not set real high considering the car is probably still little heavy....I keep two pictures of recent Drag Hudson's that help inspire me to remain focused on the Project, Gary Ellard, who raced his '53 Hornet over 40 yrs setting Records in both stock & modified Classes and Randy Maas '41 Cpe that continues to lower ET's with his 21st Century developments....

Ol' Racer

super651

Chuck,Very,Very,Very Fine looking Hudson you have there and I know that Its Going to RUN ,and Fast.

Please email me some Pictures so the Locals and My son Randy who Runs out of ATL-Drag way can see what they may only see the back bumper at the Strip. Hudsonly Rudy and local Hud-Nuts

Hugh's_Hornet

`Hudsonator wrote:

To my knowledge, nobody has flow tested a Hudson engine. If they have, they've sure kept it a secret.

Mark- It's been a few years, but there was a guy that ran a Hudson at Bonneville, I want to say in the early 1990's. IIRC the car was a 52/53 4-door Wasp, painted bright pink with a highly modified 308. He had several articles in the WTN and at least one of them showed photos of a sectioned scrap Hudson engine that he was using for flow bench tests.

He ran the car at Bonneville for several years in a row; he sold T-shirts in WTN to help support his effort. I had several of them; if I can find one it may provide his name and at least the car number. I'll also look through my old WTN's and see if I can find any of the articles.

Hugh

53 HHCC

SRCraftsman2

Ol racer wrote:

FYI
This may be an appropiate Thread to attached a few pictures of a project that I have been working on (& off) several yrs building a highly modified Hornet Motor similar to one that I stock car raced all during the '60's in this Tri State Area, but updated with some modern technology, then installing into a lightened Stepdown painted identical to one I drove (and raced in high school) to occassionally drag race now. I set aside this winter to finish this project and begining to see closure....however It is not a show Car,

I was pleased to learn that after decades away from from building my last modified Hornet Motor that others were had and still were racing Hornets and modern updates were now available. The distributor conversion was from Ron Fellows (clutch man) working on Fred Hawthorn's dragster. The oiling, head, and cooling Mods, (posted on this Thread) by Rudy Bennett, were helpful as were the availability of modern racing Parts (and advice) from Randy Maas .....

Briefly the Block is bored, stroked, Decked, balanced, large valves, wide deep Relief, Triple 2GC Carb setup, NOS, Clifford Headers, ARP Fastners, modified Clifford aluminum head, Isky 446 Cam, Maas dbl roller Chain, HEI Ign, MSD 7AL Electronic Box, Custom Damper, lightened flywheel, B&M Race converter, Maas Adapter, Modified 'race only' Turbo Trans, Ratchet Shifter, Shiftnoid (TBD), narrowed 9'Ford Rear with Spool & 31 spline axles, Individual plumbed Air Shocks, Traction Bars, Mag wheels, M&H Slicks, Goodyear 4" front Drag tires on vintage Fenton mags.

Additionally, the Chassis is severly gutted to lighten with polycarbonate windows,(except windshield), aluminum seat, sub-frame connectors, moly roll cage. Line Loc, small fuel Cell, rear Battery, Kill Sw, GM driveshaft, Safety Strap, etc.

My ET/Speed expectations are not set real high considering the car is probably still little heavy....I keep two pictures of recent Drag Hudson's that help inspire me to remain focused on the Project, Gary Ellard, who raced his '53 Hornet over 40 yrs setting Records in both stock & modified Classes and Randy Maas '41 Cpe that continues to lower ET's with his 21st Century developments....
Ol' Racer

Chuck:

You need a newbie pit crew member when ypu have that ready for the strip give a holler. Give a holler if you even need help wrench turning.

Sweet machine.

maasfh

Chuck

Anxious to see the car at the nationals. Keep your expectations high. Keeps you thinking and experimenting. Did I notice the motor will be snifing the nos? Everything looks great--Good job.

Randy

hornet53

Hugh's_Hornet wrote:

Mark- It's been a few years, but there was a guy that ran a Hudson at Bonneville, I want to say in the early 1990's. IIRC the car was a 52/53 4-door Wasp, painted bright pink with a highly modified 308. He had several articles in the WTN and at least one of them showed photos of a sectioned scrap Hudson engine that he was using for flow bench tests.

He ran the car at Bonneville for several years in a row; he sold T-shirts in WTN to help support his effort. I had several of them; if I can find one it may provide his name and at least the car number. I'll also look through my old WTN's and see if I can find any of the articles.

Hugh

53 HHCC

The car you are thinking of was run out of Astoria OR. Hot pink with dark red flames, right? I forget the guys' names who were running it(maybe Steve Kahn?). One of them visits a hot rod shop my buddy lurks around occasionally in Vancouver WA. Through him I have learned that the car itself is too far gone (due to the salt) to ever be driven again, let alone go back racing. The powerplant is probably still there somewhere though. I'll see if I can find anything out...

Ol racer

Randy,

Good observation; If the Head gasket holds I will try a little NOS as an enhancement to race Fuel. (Just a little because of only 4 Mains)

Thanks for all your assistance,

Chuck

bent metal

Hey Olracer, is that a fiberglass front end? I thought I was the only one with one of those stashed away.

By the way, I need the grill to complete mine.

esfoder

Looks like a sweet car ol racer!! Any chance of a couple more pics of the intake to ponder on?

Keep it up

Dusty

Ol racer

Dusty

Here is another view of Tri Power with progressive linkage. Because the Pontiac Carbs were wider than the tubing I milled the bases off & turned the carbs sideways for better flow to each port.

esfoder

Nice job!! Have you ran the motor with it yet?

Keep it up

Dusty

Ol racer

FYI

Its been little over a Yr but another modified Hornet Motor is finally being completed...

Its Bored, Stroked, Balanced, Magnafluxed, Windage tray, Decked, 7x Relief, Isky 446 Cam, Randy Maas Timing Chain, large Valves, Gaskets, Trans Adaptor, & advice, Ross Forged Pistons, ARP fastners, Clifford Head & Headers, NASCAR Head Nuts, RJS water pump Belt Drive, Moroso pullys, HEI/MSD Ign, Hilborn/Enderle F/Injection flow tested by Gene Adams Performance in Ca; Crank Drive fuel Pump, Port matched Int & Exh, Direct Port NOS, Fisher Race Dampner, Light Flywheel, B&M 3500 Converter, and Mopar mini Starter......

Ill post couple different Pic's as I complete the plumbing.....

super651

Sure is Nice Chuck and i know it will run. Do you have a picture of the GM dist ? Hudsonly Rudy

Hudson308

Ol racer wrote:

FYI

Its been little over a Yr but another modified Hornet Motor is finally being completed...

Its Bored, Stroked, Balanced, Decked, 7x Relief, Isky 446 Cam, Randy Maas Timing Chain, large Valves, Gaskets, Trans Adaptor, & advice, Ross Forged Pistons, ARP fastners, Clifford Head & Headers, NASCAR Head Nuts, RJS water pump Belt Drive, HEI/MSD Ign, Hilborn/Enderle F/Injection & Belt Drive, Direct Port NOS, Fisher Race Dampner, Light Flywheel, B&M 3500 Converter, and Mopar mini Starter......

oh.

yeah.

heh heh heh...

Ol racer

Rudy,

Here is a picture of the Chevy HEI. I found drilling the adaptor to pin the shaft at 180 degrees apart worked the best to elimimate any wobble.

GrimGreaser

Awesome set-up. Looking at these high-end big sixes gets me fired up. I have a Ford 300 Big Six waiting for money to be hot-rodded, and I plan to hop-up my 308 as I get the chance.

Speaking of hopping up a 308, could I get a little more info on your HEI setup? Did you do all the work, or is that from Uncommon Engineering or someone else? Is it a simple adapter that replaces the stock gear/pumpdrive along with whatever machine work needs to be done for the dizzy to fit the hole on the engine?

super651

Thanks so much Chuck, Ron and I are looking for another one so we will build it like yours. Is the center counter weight close to hitting the adaptor ? How close is it ? Pal Rudy

Ol racer

Rudy,

I removed the short shaft from the Chevy then cut off a Hudson shaft at the desided length to reach the oil pump.

Then I had a new V8 Bronze gear teeth machined off then had the inside honed to only a few thousanths press fit onto the Hudson shaft. I also notched the Hudson shaft at the top to fit the Chevy 'slot' and probably didnt need to pin, but did 180 apart.

The Counter Balance clears fine but I ground the lower part of the adapter a little more as extra assurance. Lastly, It requires modifying a Chevy Dist Clamp and I put a stud in the block rather than bolt.

However, Randy races hard using a stock Hudson Distributor with electronic pickup inside so this HEI may be overkill....

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