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In this Discussion
- bartibog1 January 2011
- bob ward January 2011
- bobdriveshudson January 2011
- Geoff C., N.Z. January 2011
- mars55 January 2011
- Ol racer January 2011
- Park_W January 2011
- RonS January 2011
- walts garage-53 January 2011
- WildWasp January 2011
ivr
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Can we use an original IVR (instrument voltage regulator) from a 12 volt car such as a 65 Mustang,i.e., with contact points in our 6 volt hudsons? Will 6 volts keep the contacts closed? Has any one tried? I know solid state ones won't work due to polarity. Has aany one tried? I never really got an answer last week.Thanks
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FYI
I dont know if this will help, but I was told by a popular Custom Wiring Harness company Technician to use the 12V Ford I.V.R. for my 6V Dash Gauges. Whether only 6V into the IVR will be enough nobody probably knows...... -
This I know. Ford went to 12 volts in 55 and 56 but still used the 6 volt gauges and had a voltage regulator behind dash that had 12 volts in and 6 volts to gauges. I know it works as that is what is in my car. Walt.
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That's what I read too. Does it work in reverse? ie, use that IVR with only a 6volt supply not 12v? Walt, isn't your 53 presently 12v?
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FYI
Im using Ford IVR's with 12V though. I suggest trying it on your 6V battery with your gauge panel. It may work like a 'switch' and not know difference between voltages, or it may work little slower.
The IVR is not meant to be a Voltage 'Reducer' though since Reducers are very different appearing.... -
http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280576031958&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
i bought this unit to use on my guages as the take 5 volts to operate
and also u can adjust the output voltage
came with velcro for easy installation will advise as to how it works in a few days
steve -
These units work through a resistive bi-metal element which heats up and breaks the circuit when 5 volts is reached. As the element cools down it re-connects, and repeats the procedure. As the gauges are very slow-acting, they do not waver during the on/off periods. Any input above 5 volts will work. Obviously they will heat up quicker on 12 volts so the on/off periods will be much shorter, but this has no effect. Just a little explanation, at no charge!
GeoffIf you're stuck in a hole, stop digging. -
I'm 12 volts all the way except the gas and temp gauge which are connected to the 55 Ford voltage regulator for their gauges. 12 years and 134,000 miles and still working. 12 in and 5 out. Walt.
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BY jove, I think I'v got it! Thanks guys, appearantly a mechanical IVR will do fine,albeit, slower with 6v input. Unfortunatly, most reproduction IVR are solid state, so a mechanical one is needed, since solid state require negative ground.
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Any input above 5 volts will work. Obviously they will heat up quicker on 12 volts so the on/off periods will be much shorter, but this has no effect.
Geoff, I have to differ just a little. I did some extensive and careful bench testing when I did my 12v conversion, using my '51 Hornet instrument cluster, a lab quality variable DC power supply and a good volt-amp meter. I found that the original Hudson regulator, supplied with 12-14v, would register almost 1/4 of the gauge range high (e.g., with gas gauge sending unit set to read 1/2 full on 6-7v, applying 12-14v would make it rise to almost 3/4 full reading). So it appears that the original regulator is not linear with respect to input voltage ... the on-off time ratio is affected a little, resulting in a bit higher average current through the gauge. In testing with the NAPA regulator that's listed for the '55 Fords, the gauge registered perfectly at 12-14v. I didn't try that 12v regulator on 6v to see what it would do, so can't address that question. -
Appreciate the info on this thread, checked with the Advanced Auto and Oreillys but dont know what I'm talking about, cant find it on their computers.
No NAPA stores, where do ya'll think I'll be able to find the 55 Ford IVR? Thanks, for the help, Bob P -
You mean you are still 6 volts? 48-49 and 50 do not need a reducer, just hook up the 6 volt wire. If you mean 51-52 53 and 54, you need the voltage regulator as Hudson called them, 6 volts in, 3 volts out. Out wire goes to one gauge and crosses over to the other. I think I have an original. If that is what you need, mail back and I will search to find it. Walt
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Walt, If He doesn,t want it, I do. Send me a PM. A question, I thought that these were 5 volt output( see Geoffs reply earlier), Ron.
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If I don't hear from him I'll get in touch with you. 6 in and 3 to 5 out. Walt.
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bobdriveshudson wrote:Appreciate the info on this thread, checked with the Advanced Auto and Oreillys but dont know what I'm talking about, cant find it on their computers.
No NAPA stores, where do ya'll think I'll be able to find the 55 Ford IVR? Thanks, for the help, Bob P
Advanced Auto and Oreillys does not carry this part. You can order it on-line from NAPA. Part numbers IR1, IR4, IR7, IR8, and IR9. They differ on their connectors. See link. But they are pricey, about $50 - $60. You can get one in a junk yard from a '60's Ford or Chrysler product.
http://www.napaonline.com/ -
Mars, I sent an email to Napa(Echlin) re the use of the IR4. They said that these are solid state and will not work with positive ground.
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Send me an e-mail hetwaltmordenti@aol.com drop the het. Walt.
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Sorry al,l but the 2 I have, have been bought. In the mean time I will try to locate more if they are out there. Walt.
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Ron...
As you have done, I did a little INTERNET sleuthing and noted a response to this question on another site. The response suggests inexpensive component part numbers necessary to complete a, do-it-yourself construction IVR. Component selection determines if the IVR output voltage is either positive (+) or negative (-) polarity. I have captured that response and reposted it here with an INTERNET link to a short video which shows how to construct the IVR suggested in this response. Note selection of the appropriate voltage regulator (LMXXXX) is determined by output voltage desired. The suggested component part numbers were specified to produce (+)or (-) 5 volt output.
...you can also make you own regulator for the gauges, go to an electronics shop and get an LM7905 for + ground or a LM7805 for negative ground,, and you also need 2 .1mF capacitors to mount at the regulator from the input to ground and another from the output to ground,, the electronics shop will have the pin out for the regulator and you can use the original screw to mount it to the back of the cluster,, the parts would be less than $5 and it solid state...
How to build an IVR- an Instrument Voltage Regulator
Cheers happy soldering -
Wasp, I saw that on the AACA site, in fact ,I started that thread. I didn't understand what he meant by mounting the capacitors at the input to ground + output to ground. Since I don't know what a LM 7905 looks like, I would prefer to see a visual or schematic. I would think that there are many Hudson owners that would be willing to buy one of these for a $20-25, produced by a knowledgable person, if not to keep a spare. There is a fellow on line that makes 'em for negative ground only, for less than $20.
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I just finished watching the film again. I saw it two weeks ago. Still have the same questions. 1. They only use one capacitor and it's 10mf not two .1s. #2, what is done with the output terminal? #3, did we just create a negative ground IVR? I don't have the expertise to answer these, and that was one of the responses of an AACA member as well.
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Ron
Understand your questions...
Answers:
1. They only use one capacitor and it's 10mf not two,
The 10 micro farad capacitor is used when the capacitor is aluminum versus ceramic.
i.e. this is a work around when using the cheaper capacitor
2. what is done with the output terminal?
The output terminal actually does not need the capacitor as the capcitors are used to shunt out noise that might effect the device being powered. In the case of the Hudson guages this is not a problem.
3. did we just create a negative ground IVR?
No, you will create a -5 volt regulated power source. The LM7905 when configured as shown below produces -5 volts dc. (Remember Hudson uses a postive ground therefore the voltage being used is referenced to the ground polarity. The voltage into the Hudson electrical system is negative polarity.
The following is a schematic of the voltage regulator with both legs compensated with capacitors as shown in the previously mentioned assembly video.
[attachment=9417]LM7905-circuits.jpg[/attachment]
The following is physical represenation of the LM7905
[attachment=9418]LM7905-pinout.jpg[/attachment]
LM7905-circuits.jpg316 x 139 - 9K
LM7905-pinout.jpg284 x 118 - 6K -
This is a 12V to 5V regulator I made for my 12V 53 Hornet a while ago.
http://www.classiccar.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=advsearch&q=regulator&searchuser=bob+ward&exactname=1&childforums=1&Itemid=152
I made it as a straight swap over for the original item. The electronics are mounted on a piece of aluminium I machined which acts as both a heat sink and a mounting block. The mounting holes in the aluminium are on the same centres as those of the original.
If there is interest I can make up a small batch of regulators, probably tidy up the design. But they won't be Walmart electronics cheap. Even with a fairly slick operation I couldn't see myself getting out each one in less than an hour. One of the bugbears of small scale manufacturing. Price probably $40 to $50 including airmail to the US. If you have the skills to make your own that's the cheap way to do it of course. -
Wasp,The position of the 3 leads(ie grd,input& output)on your illustration are differant than the illustration in the film, where the grd & input are inverted. Is the LM7905 in the picture, wired as the schematic above it, with a 10mf between input and grd, and, just eliminate the capacitor in the grd to output? On the shown regulator it is printed Lm79xxct. Can you confirm that a 7805 and a 7905 have the pins in a differant location as I believe they do? Thanks to you and Bob for your help.
Bob, what is the small brown "M&M" component with 2 leads? I have to be honest $40 per seems fair. I wonder if it were advertised in the WTN how many would respond, also Ford or any 6v Pos Grd. -
RonS wrote:Wasp,The position of the 3 leads(ie grd,input& output)on your illustration are differant than the illustration in the film, where the grd & input are inverted. Is the LM7905 in the picture, wired as the schematic above it, with a 10mf between input and grd, and, just eliminate the capacitor in the grd to output? On the shown regulator it is printed Lm79xxct. Can you confirm that a 7805 and a 7905 have the pins in a differant location as I believe they do? Thanks to you and Bob for your help.
Bob, what is the small brown "M&M" component with 2 leads? I have to be honest $40 per seems fair. I wonder if it were advertised in the WTN how many would respond, also Ford or any 6v Pos Grd.
The pinout on the 7905 regulator is different to the 7805 regulator.
The M&M component is one of the 2 capacitors, a ceramic or 'greencap'. My circuit book suggested that one of the caps, can't remember which one at the moment, be of that variety. -
Bob, see wild wasps schematic "fixed regulator" the center lead is Grd, but in the picture below of a 7905 the input is the center lead. Do you need to move the leads to compensate or, due to polarity,does it need to be wired the same way ie, the power from the ignition goes to the ground then to the first capacitor and so on? Do we need a second capacior? Also I have the original 6v, not like your 12v.
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RonS, this is how your 7905 circuit should look.
[attachment=9434]sc012c2468.jpg[/attachment]
Be aware when mounting the 7905 that the tag is live, same as the centre input pin, it will need to be insulated from whatever you fix it to.
The second capacitor may not be necessary, but we are only talking a few cents and a bit more solder. There is no downside to having the second capacitor in the circuit.
These voltage regulators from memory need at least a 2 or 3V differential between input and output to provide a reliable 5V output. A healthy 6V system is usually running at about 8V so you should be OK there
sc012c2468.jpg609 x 800 - 21K -
perfect, thanks so much.
