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In this Discussion
- `Hudsonator November 2010
- 464Saloon August 2010
- 51hornetA October 2010
- Aaron D. IL August 2010
- bent metal August 2010
- bob ward October 2010
- Browniepetersen August 2010
- dwardo99 October 2010
- essexcoupe3131 October 2010
- GrimGreaser August 2010
- Hudson308 October 2010
- hudsonsplasher1 October 2010
- ivanz62 November 2010
- JMGarage October 2010
- Kdancy November 2010
- Ken U-Tx August 2010
- Lee ODell November 2010
- maasfh November 2010
- mjsandbe August 2010
- nhp1127 November 2010
- Ol racer October 2010
- onerare39 August 2010
- Pacemaker500 October 2010
- PaceRacer50 August 2010
- Park_W August 2010
- pierre from france November 2010
- ralpie August 2010
- Richie October 2010
- RL Chilton October 2010
- Roger Harmon October 2010
- super651 November 2010
- terraplane8 August 2010
- twelch November 2010
- WildWasp November 2010
New Hudson High performance Aluminum Head now available
-
New Hudson High performance Aluminum Head now available
After many months effort, Hudsonites in El Paso Texas are announcing the availability of a NEW HUDSON Hi Performance Aluminum Head. Rudy Bennett and his Hudson friends have spent months coming up with a design for a new Hudson Aluminum Head which they have named the TWIN-VORTEX Hudson Head.
We are now manufacturing and making available for sale a new designed aluminum cylinder .head for the 232-262-308 Hudson engines. This head will fit all of the wide block engines offered by Hudson during the 1951-1956 production years. The wide block head is being manufactured using 356-T6 (aircraft aluminum) which produces a product with a tensile strength of 36,000 pounds. The finished heads will have a textured finish including rows of 0.190 inch thick cooling fins to aid in heat dissipation and for added strength .(see the attached photos)
Featured updates
· The head manufacturing included using the latest casting techniques to assure improved coolant flow throughout the cylinder head is achieved.
· The gasket surface of the head is .100 inch over the stock Hudson head so the head can be safely milled to increase the CR above the stock 8.4 to1ratio this head achieves in standard form.
· The thermostat housing selected is a GM type which is located in the same position as stock heads. The flange was selected to assure better service without the cracking problems found in the Hudson OEM Thermostat housings.
· The head was designed to allow use of ¾ inch reach, 14 mm type thread spark plugs. (Less chance of stripping them) and allows the use of a wide Heat-Range spark plug. The sparkplug location was engineered to be close to the piston as opposed to the OEM Hudson head location over the exhaust valve. This design assures the sparkplugs will be cooled by the Air-Fuel charge from the Intake valve.
· The head bolt holes are 7/16 and can easily be drilled out to ½ size if needed
The head has completed several testing actions
· The Twin Vortex feature of this new aluminum head was flow tested. The modified combustion chamber was compared to the combustion chamber of a stock head. What we learned was the new head created a vortex which flowed around the valves towards the piston and out the intake valve. The stock chamber flow patterns indicated kick back of the flow to both valves.
Rudy Bennett credits Chuck Fellows, also an avid Hudson fan, with the combustion chamber design and testing. The product shown is the result of months of research into the successes and failures of past flat head engine head design. Coupling this with practical flow testing a final design was produced which is incorporated into the TWIN VORTEX head
The TWIN VORTEX Team selected EMI Manufacturing of El Paso Texas as their manufacturer.
For more information and an opportunity to purchase one of these heads contact:
Rudy Bennett – 4924 Grapeland Drive – El Paso, Texas 79994 – email: rbennett37@sbcglobal.net
TWIN-VORTEX 1_128098157446654.jpg442 x 614 - 14K
TWIN-VORTEX 2_128098131146654.jpg586 x 454 - 14K -
Awesome!
Now the important question ---Cost? -
Congratulations... It looks to be an engineering marvel! Thanks to everyone for your time and effort in bringing a new head to market. We needed that.
John -
Congratulations, guys! Thanks for putting substantial effort into a part we could really use. Now... break the price info to us gently, and show us a picture of the flipside!Workin Stiff
-
Nice! Mark that down on my must-have list. Thanks to all involved for bringing this to market.
Now, where's my powerball tickets...Six in a row makes it GO! -
Not sure if that is a picture of a cylinder head or the timber pattern? Just asking.
-
FANTASTIC! I love the fins too.
-
FYI
Congratulations to all the people behind this new design Hudson Aluminum Racing Head after years of having only one choice of performance Head available that actually needed 'tweaking' to better enhance On Track performance. Wishing you all the Best..... -
Better pictures and a price would make me happy
Thanks for investing your time and effort into Hudsons[b]Michael S.[/b]
Chronicles of my search for and adventures with my Hornet http://52hornet.blogspot.com -
For Bob Ward
...Not sure if that is a picture of a cylinder head or the timber pattern? Just asking...
Picture of Head prior to finishing -
For those who are seeking more information ... better pictures, cost... please contact Rudy Bennett, he will be glad to assist you in these areas.
Rudy Bennett – 4924 Grapeland Drive – El Paso, Texas 79994 – email: rbennett37@sbcglobal.net
Update: 7 August 2010 --information from Rudy Bennett and Chuck Fellows...
Ken in my previous emails, I failed to say this head is SOON to be available at a price of $900.00 each plus Shipping. At this time it will be 90 days until we can take orders. ( my Goof)
Please contact the manufacturer to order, the company has new owners and they are very helpful.
EMPIRE MOTORS
13451 MONTANA AVE
EL PASO TEXAS 79938-9616
915-856 9607
info@empiremotorsinc.com
Made in USA by American Craftsmen
We are in contact with a lot of Hudson owners answering their email and phone questions. We will continue to provide information to all who inquire. Thanks again for the support for our new Hudson Head.
Hudsonly Rudy and Chuck -
very impressive design with a ton of innovation designed into it. Rudy is all over this new piece and going the extra mile to make it right. I can't wait to try one on the 328 cubic inch Twin-H Twin-Turbo engine I am building for my new gasser drag racer!
My thanks go out to Rudy and everyone involved in this project. Looking forward to getting my hands and eyes on one in person!
later,
PaceRacer50 -
Bumped... see the added information in previous post from Rudy and Chuck about this new head...
-
Hmmm , this Empire Motors is the offshoot of the old MFT Manufacuring. They had numerous fraud complaints against them. Are they asking for deposits up front before they will cast a lot of those heads? Is that Valor Blazer guy still running it from behind the scenes, or using an alias??? Kenneth
-
In the email that I started with the folks at Empire Motors all these negative comments were discussed and I thought put to bed!!! The main comment that kept comming up was if Empire Motors was so "good" let them find their own head, cast it at their own cost and on and on.... Well, their new management stepped up to the plate and did all that we sideline folks complained that they should do. And, still we snap at them?
I think we need to eat a bit of crow (me included) and be excited that a new head is now available for our stepdown Hudsons. I for one thank them for what they did and since I am picking up a 50 Hudson this next week to start on I think I will give them a call--providing it will fit on my car....Brownie -
As long and they play straight I'd see no reason not to do business with them. You give money = you get the head you wanted (hopefully without defects) Simple as that. Lets look at the handwriting on the wall people the newest Hudson it is even possible to own is a car over 50 years old! These days we should be glad anyone produces anything at all for em in our disposable society. Now if they don't come through...let the dirt fly!
-
Maybe we could work out a group buy as some other clubs have?
-
Ken U-Tx wrote:Hmmm , this Empire Motors is the offshoot of the old MFT Manufacuring. They had numerous fraud complaints against them. Are they asking for deposits up front before they will cast a lot of those heads? Is that Valor Blazer guy still running it from behind the scenes, or using an alias??? Kenneth
Kenneth, Rudy and Chuck
Yes Mr Blazer is and hourly employee of EMPIRE MOTORS works with quality control and hands on all the many projects.
Chuck and Me were going to have a Head built just for us because we could not find a head to meet our demands then, we had a guilty feeling about being selfish that is when we called some of our good x-racing buddys and said,lets do it for all, ok thats how it all got started.
We have spent lots of our money lots of our time going to the plant two times a week some times more to help in this project and Most of ALL we enjoy doing it,we want to Help our many Hudson friends in Hudson land get a Cyl.Head that we think is the best Designed to be made at this time.
He is taking orders as of last week when Ken posted it for us and the payment is pay as it is built.
They have many cyl heads,intake manifolds,ex.manifolds and some cyl blocks for many cars such as Lincoln v-12 Packard v12 Lycoming and lost more that were ordered and never paid for and that is one reason they filed for Bankruptcy many years back.
We hope that this helps in some way as they want there name cleared and the Hudson people is a good starting group .
We are happy that someone is taking the time and our money to make us Hudson owners a quality part that not only looks very nice but,will outperform any thing out on the market.
Hudsonly to ALL Rudy and Chuck
Please call them for the del. date,as some have placed the orders in the past 2 days. Thanks for reading and May youall have a Blessed day -
Kdancy wrote:Maybe we could work out a group buy as some other clubs have?
Kdancy, that is a good one and we will ask them this week. I am sure that the more they make the price will go down,kinda like a PRICE ROLL BACK,now where have we seen this in addvertizing.
Hudsonly Rudy -
Rudy, I sent you a PM.
kdancy -
Last Bump... orders for this new head are being taken and there has been a great response. Rudy, Chuck and the Empire folks are very happy to answer the many inquiries and a BIG Thanks to those who have placed orders...
-
Ken U-Tx wrote:Hmmm , this Empire Motors is the offshoot of the old MFT Manufacuring. They had numerous fraud complaints against them. Are they asking for deposits up front before they will cast a lot of those heads? Is that Valor Blazer guy still running it from behind the scenes, or using an alias??? Kenneth
Why not use an escrow service? That way there is no risk for buyers if delivery is delayed. If the purchase contract is properly written there would be a cancellation option if delivery was not made in say six months from date of signing. That's what I'd do if there was any doubt whatsoever. Not saying anything is wrong here at all, just putting up this option if anyone needed total peace of mind. -
How soon will someone be able to do a credible dyno check of this nice new head vs. an original in good condition?
-
Park W wrote:How soon will someone be able to do a credible dyno check of this nice new head vs. an original in good condition?
That's a great idea. If I were running the company, I'd conduct a test with someone like Randy Maas and publicize the results. You'd get alot of bang for the buck in marketing. -
Park W wrote:How soon will someone be able to do a credible dyno check of this nice new head vs. an original in good condition?
One of the heads will be shipped to Randy Maas for him to test and we will be testing 2 of them on the road, in about 3 weeks we hope.
We will not be testing on a Dyno.
They will be pressure tested with air and then Water. We know that we had lots of water leaks in the Head bolt bore of some of the other heads that we used in Racing of years past .
Some of the brand x flatheads used a chamber design close to the one we built such as WEIAND,SHARP.and Navarro and the 1954 Packard 8 cyl is close also.
A good book that is full of pictures and info is by Joe Abbin of Albuq.N.M.
FLATHEAD FORD is the title.
Hope this helps Hudsonly Rudy and Chuck -
super651 wrote:One of the heads will be shipped to Randy Maas for him to test and we will be testing 2 of them on the road, in about 3 weeks we hope.
We will not be testing on a Dyno.
They will be pressure tested with air and then Water. We know that we had lots of water leaks in the Head bolt bore of some of the other heads that we used in Racing of years past .
Some of the brand x flatheads used a chamber design close to the one we built such as WEIAND,SHARP.and Navarro and the 1954 Packard 8 cyl is close also.
A good book that is full of pictures and info is by Joe Abbin of Albuq.N.M.
FLATHEAD FORD is the title.
Hope this helps Hudsonly Rudy and Chuck
Great info... many of us are waiting eagerly to see how this piece works out. Thanks again for making the effort, guys. I may be opening a can o' worms here, but somebody is bound to ask. I assume the bare castings have a decent-sized combustion chamber that would keep compression ratios streetable when used with earlier 308's made with the smaller block relief. In this case the buyer would be able to shave a custom-tailored amount from the head deck surface to boost compression as desired. Are there any plans to test the effects of that machined slot into the flat quench area when compression ratios are increased by a significant amount?Workin Stiff -
super651 wrote:********
We will not be testing on a Dyno.
************
Surely you would want some solid facts & figures, to show how effective all the design and research has been? I'm certain I would if I'd invested months in design work. Sure, acceleration tests can be a quick first look at how effective you have been, but there is nothing like a Dyno test to get to the nitty gritty.
From post #1
"The Twin Vortex feature of this new aluminum head was flow tested. The modified combustion chamber was compared to the combustion chamber of a stock head. What we learned was the new head created a vortex which flowed around the valves towards the piston and out the intake valve. The stock chamber flow patterns indicated kick back of the flow to both valves.
Rudy Bennett credits Chuck Fellows, also an avid Hudson fan, with the combustion chamber design and testing. The product shown is the result of months of research into the successes and failures of past flat head engine head design. Coupling this with practical flow testing a final design was produced which is incorporated into the TWIN VORTEX head" -
It would be great to show dyno results as they should be good! Of course a CR increase by itself will show an increase; what would be interesting is a comparison of this head plus the traditional ones on the same CR which would have to be cc'd to ensure exactly the same CR.
-
terraplane8 wrote:It would be great to show dyno results as they should be good! Of course a CR increase by itself will show an increase; what would be interesting is a comparison of this head plus the traditional ones on the same CR which would have to be cc'd to ensure exactly the same CR.
Flow testing is great, but the dyno will show any real improvements very quickly and gives you real "seat of the pants" numbers to go by. I've seen instances of drag racers testing heads and the ones with the best flow bench # didn't transfer to the track as well as other "less flow" heads.
I'm sure these heads will be great but please do a comparison dyno test! I can't wait to polish one to see how well that goes! -
No doubt if they want to sell these heads and get back their time and investment, they will have to dyno test. As plentiful as dyno's are now and relatively inexpensive as compared to the past, the question is why not. I am on another site called realoldspower.com and the guys there building and racing Oldsmobiles are posting dyno prinouts all the time for the changes they are making. Not only fun to see the changes but very informative.
-
There's a shop here in Colorado with a chassis dyno, last I checked prices where:
http://thecarburetorshop.net
Dyno time per half hour:
$75/half hour for the first 2 hours, $70/half hour from there.
Dyno Tuner’s labor is $90/hr in addition to Dyno time.
Having their mechanics do a test-tune to your specs will generally run $550.
Not sure how this would compare to just an engine dyno.Six in a row makes it GO! -
GrimGreaser wrote:There's a shop here in Colorado with a chassis dyno, last I checked prices where:
http://thecarburetorshop.net
Dyno time per half hour:
$75/half hour for the first 2 hours, $70/half hour from there.
Dyno Tuner’s labor is $90/hr in addition to Dyno time.
Having their mechanics do a test-tune to your specs will generally run $550.
Not sure how this would compare to just an engine dyno.
Anyone willing to fork over $550 to satify your quriousity? Just qurious. Lee -
Lee O'Dell wrote:Anyone willing to fork over $550 to satify your quriousity? Just qurious. Lee
I don't think you understand where we are coming from. It's not just to satisfy our "curiosity", but a dyno comparison is a major tool in marketing a new product and showing the perspective customer that it's not just a pretty aluminum piece of metal with fins, but a real performance product, and you don't have to be racing to appreciate that. It sounds like it is, but you never know until you actually have numbers before and after to compare. If I were making and marketing them, it would be money well spent if it performs as expected as it should result in extra sales. -
ElPaso
http://www.speedfactorytuning.com/Service%20and%20DYNO.htm
DYNO AND TUNING RATES
Speed Factory offers a full array of Dyno and Tuning services catering to all makes and models. With our in house Dynojet Model 224x, we utilize state of the art technology to precision tune all your vehicles for maximum power and reliability. Speed Factory would like to let all the AWD junkies know that thanks to Western Technical College we also have full-time access to their technically advanced Mustang MD500-SE All-Wheel-Drive Dynometer as well. CALL 915.595.0000 to set up your appointment today!!!!
DYNO RATES
* $25 for Wide Band O2 meter.
*Additional charges may apply for vehicles that require extra work or modifications in order to be dyno-tested
HOURLY RATES (CUSTOMER HANDLES TUNING)
*2WD- $100
Speed Factory 2010 9515 Gateway Blvd West Ste. D El Paso TX. 79925 -
I sure would like to see how you setup your flow bench to test this head. Flow testing on a flat head is complicated by having to know exactly what relief you have in the block to accurately calculate the final compression ratio vs engine breathing which is the voodoo in the building of performance flat heads.
Agree with above posts dyno that puppy. Same engine using the OEM Aluminum and cast heads for reference.www.hudsonmotorcar.org -
51hornetA wrote:I sure would like to see how you setup your flow bench to test this head. Flow testing on a flat head is complicated by having to know exactly what relief you have in the block to accurately calculate the final compression ratio vs engine breathing which is the voodoo in the building of performance flat heads.
Agree with above posts dyno that puppy. Same engine using the OEM Aluminum and cast heads for reference.
We testflowed the 232-262-308 head chambers as did others in the past.
We used a sheet of Plexaglass clamped to the chamber being tested and drilled a hole 5/16 and injected a stream of water into this hole to see how it would flow and compaired it to our Modified chamber. (the hole is about where the valves would be) The water would slide across the wennie or the lowered part of the head where the ramp starts going up to the cyl headmilled area. ( when a high millage head is removed a lots of carbon in found at this part of the head and sometimes more than other parts of the chamber) The sharp areas around the Fire-Ring of the gasket would cause the water flow to really go a bit crazy.
With our Modified chamber the water would flow around both sides of the chamber evenly and head for the piston area.
This is Not a test of head to block flow ,this flow test was used by Smokey Yunick in his early days of engine building to only test the flow of the differant head chambers.
Is this the Best test of a Flat Head ? It is what WE used.
Hudsonly Rudy and Chuck -
Yes this is the same method used by Hudson to test their heads.
You have half of the picture with this testing. I still have my Dad's flow testing rig. We tested too many heads to remember on this setup. In the early days we slapped them on a engine we had in a test car and drove the crap out it to test. Later Dad got a dyno and we tested on that. Better testing less surprises. My Dad had a engine shop.
This has been my experience you can get a head setup on the flow bench and think its the cats meow then get it on an engine and have it give numbers less than the stock head. I remember when my Dad had me doing heads for a flat head ford we were building for me. He said you grind your own heads well I was young and screwed up the transfer area left a bump in it I missed it entirely. Of course we were grinding stock heads by hand so you expect some differences. I had boloxed the grind basically. It flow tested like a dream thought I had cracked the atom on a new head grind. Ran like complete crap on the car. When my Dad checked them he was laughing his ass off. What can I say. Experience takes time. Like he said you have to screw it up to get it right the next time.
Not saying that your stuff is anything like this in any way shape or form. Only saying flow testing is half the picture on a flat head. But you guys know that. Be interested to see this head on a car screaming down the road. Kudos to you guys for building new Hudson speed equipment.www.hudsonmotorcar.org -
Thanks 51Hornet,for your thanks to us.It is a longer road than we expected on this project and we did not realize the work that it is taken to get this far like,driving to the plant 3-4 times a week to help some in the process.The old-timers that make the patterns do it by Hand like carving and grinding of the whole head,not just the outside but the inside like,the water jacket passages it truly is a lost art,that is done by hand.
And it is good to hear that you did the same testing as we have done and,that the Dyno is a great tool But, the Road and Tracks is the real test as you were saying. We have tested engines on the dyno and logged some very impressive Torques and HP. and then see them blown away in the real world. (not a hudson engine)
We will keep plugging away at it till we get it right that is if Artha of the Ritis brothers will let up a bit so we can complete it.
Thanks to you and all of our Hudson family Rudy and Chuck -
Well, I bit the bullet and placed my money where my mouth is! Sent the check in today.
Anyone in Florida or Georgia want to volunteer their car to be the test mule? Maybe a group of us can get together for a test session
-
Kdancy wrote:Well, I bit the bullet and placed my money where my mouth is! Sent the check in today.
Anyone in Florida or Georgia want to volunteer their car to be the test mule? Maybe a group of us can get together for a test session
Keep us posted on your test. Should be interesting. Sorry being in Calif. it's a bit far to volunteer a test car. I would be interested in the test results.
Will you tell us what this new head cost?
Good luck. Lee O'Dell -
super651 wrote:Ken U-Tx wrote:Hmmm , this Empire Motors is the offshoot of the old MFT Manufacuring. They had numerous fraud complaints against them. Are they asking for deposits up front before they will cast a lot of those heads? Is that Valor Blazer guy still running it from behind the scenes, or using an alias??? Kenneth
Ken has a legitimate concern. I had some contact with Valor Blazer of Empire Motors some time ago, with regards to casting heads for our early Super Sixes and was not impressed. I also had some feed back from members of the Horseless Carriage club with a bad experience with them. Lost parts, lost money, law suits etc. So, it does my heart good to hear there are in business and coming through with what they have promised.
Please keep us informed on the results of your project. I may revisit my early Super Six head project.
Gene Birdsall.
Kenneth, Rudy and Chuck
Yes Mr Blazer is and hourly employee of EMPIRE MOTORS works with quality control and hands on all the many projects.
Chuck and Me were going to have a Head built just for us because we could not find a head to meet our demands then, we had a guilty feeling about being selfish that is when we called some of our good x-racing buddys and said,lets do it for all, ok thats how it all got started.
We have spent lots of our money lots of our time going to the plant two times a week some times more to help in this project and Most of ALL we enjoy doing it,we want to Help our many Hudson friends in Hudson land get a Cyl.Head that we think is the best Designed to be made at this time.
He is taking orders as of last week when Ken posted it for us and the payment is pay as it is built.
They have many cyl heads,intake manifolds,ex.manifolds and some cyl blocks for many cars such as Lincoln v-12 Packard v12 Lycoming and lost more that were ordered and never paid for and that is one reason they filed for Bankruptcy many years back.
We hope that this helps in some way as they want there name cleared and the Hudson people is a good starting group .
We are happy that someone is taking the time and our money to make us Hudson owners a quality part that not only looks very nice but,will outperform any thing out on the market.
Hudsonly to ALL Rudy and Chuck
Please call them for the del. date,as some have placed the orders in the past 2 days. Thanks for reading and May youall have a Blessed day -
Sorry but I am confused on this tread.....
1. Is there or is there not going to be dyno results on this head? If not, why? I wouldn't buy a head simply based on someones driving impressions.Show me the stats!
2. What is the cost of the head?
3. When will it be realistically available?
4. Pic's of the head. -
Kdancy wrote:Well, I bit the bullet and placed my money where my mouth is! Sent the check in today.
Anyone in Florida or Georgia want to volunteer their car to be the test mule? Maybe a group of us can get together for a test session
Kdancy, what would be required of me if I volunteered one of my cars for your test mule. I'm just outside of Atlanta. Where would I have to drive it? Richie -
Congrats!!! Awesome craftsmanship!
-
Richie wrote:Kdancy wrote:Well, I bit the bullet and placed my money where my mouth is! Sent the check in today.
Anyone in Florida or Georgia want to volunteer their car to be the test mule? Maybe a group of us can get together for a test session
Kdancy, what would be required of me if I volunteered one of my cars for your test mule. I'm just outside of Atlanta. Where would I have to drive it? Richie
Richie, I pm'ed you, check your messages. -
nhp1127 wrote:Sorry but I am confused on this tread.....
1. Is there or is there not going to be dyno results on this head? If not, why? I wouldn't buy a head simply based on someones driving impressions.Show me the stats!
I'm not in the market for one of these heads, but you have to wonder if there is a bit of BS floating about. Making an aluminium Hudson head as a replacement part is one thing, and congratulations for providing the money and b*lls to make it happen.
But hyping the head as a high performance head on the basis of very crude and basically irrelevant flow tests is not a good look. -
I would be glad to dyno my race motor first with a clifford head. Would need to make a few pulls to tune for max hp and torque. I can then change the head to the Bennett-Fellows head and tune for final comparison. Of course this is going to be expensive. Will cost $350 per day for me to dyno for as many pulls as I need. Will need to change heads which takes time so I will probably need to pull a second day with the B-F head. This should take care of the speculation for all the folks that critisise the way the head is built, flow tested, ect. Maybe you are right and maybe you are wrong. We will know. With all the interest start sending me your $20.00 donations to help offset expenses. Will be done this winter. I'll be glad to post all names that help with with this project.
Randy Maas
P.O. Box 589
Manito, Illinois
61546 -
Well, this has been an extremely interesting thread. I too, am looking forward to hearing more about the progress on the project, and to seeing a "finished" head. Re-reading this thread, on August 5th, it was posted that heads would be available in 90 days, which translates to Nov. 5th. That means, if this is still true, that someone should be getting a new head in a couple of weeks. Would like to see some pics posted of the finished head.
Kdancy-
Bravo for you! Admire your faith.
Randy-
That's an extremely generous offer. I would think that a better test for the average bear would be, rather than using a racing motor for dyno testing, it seems it would be more prudent to use a stock 308 with a cast iron head for one test, and the New Head for a second test. An interesting addition would be to lastly compare to the Clifford head. Regardless, if it comes down to you doing the dyno work, put me down for a donation. I certainly don't mind stepping up to the benefit of all of us.
I am in agreement with others in that dyno testing is a must, if you want to sell any of these heads. From the above pricing on dyno testing, it seems that the cost of one head, possibly two would pay for the tests. So, why wouldn't you do the dyno tests? From a business standpoint, if you were planning on selling 6 heads, then no, of course you wouldn't consider it. But if you planned on selling 20 or more heads, I would think the matter a no-brainer.
If the cost is remaining to be $900, as posted on page 1 of this thread, I would venture to guess (especially in this economy), that most folks are in the "wait and see" status on considering a purchase for these heads. Photos of finished products, dyno stats and a complete set of specs would go a long way in the marketing department.
Lastly, it was posted earlier that the spark plug location was going to be positioned over the cylinder, rather than over the exhaust valve as on an OEM head. From the picture of the rough casting, this does not appear to be correct to my eyes . . . am I missing something there?
Anyway, don't mean to be pessimistic, if it came out that way. Congratulations on the effort to bring the Hudson folks another alternative in the performance department. -
Hi Randy, I dont have 1 of these motors but anyone thats would go out on a limb
to produce a head like this I would also donate $20-00 towards the project
I know how expensive it is to setup projects like this from the work I have done casting different parts for my coupe
and you guys have gone a lot further indeed
A lot of kudos to you guys
send me your email address and I will PayPal the money through to you
Mike -
Randy, just got in and read your post. Do you have a pay pal account to take donations to help with testing? I'll be glad to help out.maasfh wrote:I would be glad to dyno my race motor first with a clifford head. Would need to make a few pulls to tune for max hp and torque. I can then change the head to the Bennett-Fellows head and tune for final comparison. Of course this is going to be expensive. Will cost $350 per day for me to dyno for as many pulls as I need. Will need to change heads which takes time so I will probably need to pull a second day with the B-F head. This should take care of the speculation for all the folks that critisise the way the head is built, flow tested, ect. Maybe you are right and maybe you are wrong. We will know. With all the interest start sending me your $20.00 donations to help offset expenses. Will be done this winter. I'll be glad to post all names that help with with this project.
Randy Maas
P.O. Box 589
Manito, Illinois
61546
I know you can't please everyone with how the dyno test is done and on what engine it is done on, but a hi po motor like yours will tell us a lot about how good this head really is. Of course a road test would go further in the "how it performs in the cooling" department. Both dyno and road testing will give us the answers we seek ! -
Randy,
I've been following this with interest and I want to jump in and say I will pay the $350 for the day of testing the new head against the existing Clifford head on your race motor. I am sure that you, like me, do a significant amount of machining to the Clifford head to make the chambers equal in volume (as they certainly are not when they were shipped from Clifford's) and to tailor them to your block relief and cam lift. Hopefully, the new head will have more consistent combustion chambers and I trust your careful analysis of whether it will work with 7X size valves without machining for easy street rod bolt on use. As you can guess, I am interested in it for competition use and you are the man whose efforts I believe in. So, I will pay 1/3 the cost of a head to know whether, in your view, this represents a good alternative for competition, what work it needs to do that job, and, hopefully, the Hudson community can learn if it will work for them as a "bolt-on" speed part.
Hudsonly,
Ivan Zaremba
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