ClassicCar

russmaas

Have read thru the local newsletter that burn outs have been banned in the parking lot at future nationals. Also hearing alcohol may not be permitted in parking lots next year either.

Was told by many international HETers' that was there highlight of the meet.

bent metal

Ahh? I don't think it was ever permitted or officially "approved" of by the club. Because of the liability involved if something should happen then they of course can't have knowledge of such activities, and certainly can't give approval. ... So don't ask for it, be safe, and I'm sure the Nationals and Regionals, will continue on as they always have.

So long as nobody gets hurt.

Matter of fact, I almost twisted my ankle making a run to see the last burn out.

harry54

I thought that was one of the highlights as well.... it was spectacular.... Thanks again for the show.....

Browniepetersen

Just some thoughts on this: I have been on the staff that has put a large (over 1,000 cars) car show each year for the last 25 years. We have been forced to address both of these issues. The "burn-out" came after a high-end hot rod laid a patch of rubber for 20 feet and hit a 12 year old girl. We moved the car show to a grass field to stop the burn-outs but it did not work. The first year we had three patches where the grass was distroyed. We were on school district property and the repairs to the grass and one sprinkler cost us just over $1,500. We are a free car show, and I was one who personally put up money to cover the repairs. We have little tollerence for these acts today. As much as I love them as a part of our hobby, the dar show is not a drag strip. There is a time and place for them and in an organized show with people everywhere it is neither the time or the place.

It is becomming harder and harder to provide "drinking" with a public venue today. This is a issue that only surfaces when it gets out of control. There were two law suits filed this year with our show and we as an organization were named as not being in control of the event. This is an area where one bad apple ruins the event for everyone. So far we have $5,000 in fees going to the leagle folks on this one. I like the attitude of do not ask and do not tell and we all can be happy; but, we are at a point where we need to enforce these issues or we need to stop having our local car show. I doubt our Hudson folks want to face these issues and I would hate to see us not have the Regional and National meets so we need to be sure that we are doing our part to support these events and continue to have them. Just my opinion.....

Aaron D. IL

I think the issue could be a non-issue if during the meet there is one schedeuled night to go to the drag strip so there's a place provided to do burnouts if you want to and for people who want to see what a Hudson will do to be able to see that. Sadly we live in lawsuit-happy times where people sue first and talk things out (like mature adults) and work out their problems later. But for the more creative... the question is not why we CAN'T do it..... but under what conditions CAN we do it and do it safely?

dougson

Yes, we live in an increasingly litigious society; on the other hand hitting a 12 year old because you need to make a grand exit is inviting trouble. I notice "No burnouts" at more and more shows because the cost of an accident can ruin everyone's fun. Anyway, Hudson burnouts!? Sounds oxymoronic to me: crud all over the fenders, ruined tires, destroyed differentials. Oh well, I must be getting old :rolleyes:.

ralpie

Dougson ended his post with ... I must be getting old... Well if it takes being old to recognize alcohol and unsafe behavior are out of step with any event count me in! Jeopardizing the welfare of others should NEVER be tolerated. I am completely with those who say NO ALCOHOL and spell out the behavior limits for all attending. Some folks just need to be told.

royer

I haven't heard anything about a no alcohol rule, but if there is one, it may have something to do with the local open container laws in Spokane.

I spent a lot of time trolling the lots in Pontiac, and did not witness any behavior that would warrant a ban on alcohol.

46HudsonPU

I fully agree with Brownie... Since we ARE in and a part of this 'day and age' we cannot avoid OUR responsibility to act wisely and with good judgment, for ALL concerned. This means that we must respectfully follow any and all guidelines for activities and events we attend, not just those we CHOOSE to abide by.

It isn't just a coincidence that drinking alcoholic beverages and burnouts and/or reckless driving go 'hand-in-hand' (at least at times...).

Just because a person's vehicle is capable of doing burnouts does not mean that it SHOULD be tolerated (Just settle for revving your engine a few times)...

Just because we're all over 21 years & of legal age to drink alcoholic beverages does not mean that they should be allowed at every (or any) venue or event.

Seems to me that a good (or great) time can be had, WITHOUT it being necessary to ruin your tires, gas mileage, liver & kidneys...

AND - Anyone who violates the 'rules' or 'guidelines' should be banned from attending any subsequent events, for a realistic period of time - depending on the severity of the offense, and/or if it was a repeat offense...

Stepping down off of my soapbox...

royer

LOL - It's amazing that the folks most concerned with this matter weren't there - and have no frame of reference to know what is being discussed.

There were no keg stands, no body shots, nobody passed out in the street, no streaking, no shooting, no knife fights and no giant clouds of tire smoke filling the air night and day. If there was a burnout - I missed it...and I didn't miss much.

The Michigan folks did a great job running this meet - and I won't stand by silently while people who weren't there tell us how it should be done.

ralpie

Matt... there is nothing in my post that refers to the NATIONAL meet nor to any particular club... if you believe that was the intent of my post ... you failed to get the gist of my presentation. Responsible behavior does not have anything to do with car clubs or attendance at a specific meeting.

46HudsonPU

royer wrote:

LOL - It's amazing that the folks most concerned with this matter weren't there - and have no frame of reference to know what is being discussed.

There were no keg stands, no body shots, nobody passed out in the street, no streaking, no shooting, no knife fights and no giant clouds of tire smoke filling the air night and day. If there was a burnout - I missed it...and I didn't miss much.

The Michigan folks did a great job running this meet - and I won't stand by silently while people who weren't there tell us how it should be done.

Hi Matt,
I was speaking to the subject in general, and in reference to the points Brownie made.

However, if such rules or guidelines are put into place at any future venues or events, they should be followed.

And, honestly, the thought of ANY of the members I know doing 'body shots, passing out in the street, streaking, shooting, engaged in knife fights etc.,' had me ROF LOL!

Chuck G

cars and alcohol dont mix. burnouts and crowds dont mix either

maasfh

Hi Guys,

Since it was my car and son doing the burnouts I thought I was pass on some thoughts. I think the word "potential" would best describe what we are trying to get across here. I believe it was the St. Louis meet when it began with Jack Miller (president of club at the time) persuaded me to do a burnout in front of the hotel. I don't know if it was ever permitted or " officially approved" by the club, but we did it. We had several people at Michigan ask us to do a burnout. Most liked it --a couple *****ed but you can never satisfy everyone. Steve (#2 son) did the burnout. He is an experienced drag racer running a 1995 Pontiac Firebird pro-stock 632 cu. in. 1250 hp all alum. bk. racecar running 7.65 in the quarter at 178 mph so I let him do the burnout knowing he is capable of handling any situation that may arise with the car: however, there is the "potential" for someting to go wrong. As with alcohol consumtion I have seen some members so drunk they could hardly stand up at national meets. Again you have the" potential" for someone to stumble up against a car and damage paint or body panels on someone's car. And Rick, I hope you were refering to street racers and not drag racers with your comment concerning alcohol, burnouts and reckless driving go hand in hand. Rule #1- drag racers do not drink and are responsible and race. That's not to say they won't drink after racing has finished, but not during eliminations. I realize some people have to be educated between drag racing and street racing. I have seen open cars giving rides to folks in the parking lot and sometimes going to fast. "Potentially" someone or a child could dart out between cars in the lot and be injured. We certainly do not have to do burnouts and some folks need to be responsible drinkers, and others to slow down the vehicles in the lot. We will still have fun. I'm all for keeping attorneys out of my pockets.

46HudsonPU

maasfh wrote:

... And Rick, I hope you were refering to street racers and not drag racers with your comment concerning alcohol, burnouts and reckless driving go hand in hand. Rule #1- drag racers do not drink and are responsible and race. That's not to say they won't drink after racing has finished, but not during eliminations. ...

Yes, that was the intent... But, it could well be widened to any sport or activity that requires the full concentration of the active participants or those that would be engaging in any potentially dangerous activities.
Of course in this day and age, this could be something as simple as crossing the street - but sanity and reason should 'rule out'...

The whole point is that if the organizers or facilities manager of any event stipulate or impose restrictions (be it due to local ordanances, insurance or even club bylaws), those that attend the event need to adhere to them.

Please don't take this to mean that I disapprove of having a 'cool one' (or two) at the drag races, ball park, football stadium, etc...

Turbopackman

46HudsonPU wrote:

And, honestly, the thought of ANY of the members I know doing 'body shots, passing out in the street, streaking, shooting, engaged in knife fights etc.,' had me ROF LOL!

I heard you Hudson guy's were a rough crowd, but jeesh! I'll stick with the Packard crowd, we just sit around drinking fine wine and eating caviar while smoking Cuban cigars and discussing the fine points between a Super Eight and a Twelve. I guess we're just more civilized! LOL!

:eek:

Browniepetersen

I do not disagree with you Matt and I have attended enough meets to know that our members are responsible as was the case at the National. However, just because we were not able to attend this meet does not take away our right as members of this hobby and club to give our opinion. As I have said recently on this Forum, I am retiring and expect to attend a lot of regional and national meets in the next decade. I want to be sure there are events to attend. When it comes to laying rubber it is not a new subject for me. I started drag racing along with a lot of you folks back in the early 60's; and I have spent a great deal of time on the Bonneville Salt Flats, most recently with old cars, and have driven the black line a number of times. These are things that I love to do. I just do not want anyone to ruin it for me on the track, the salt flats or at a local/national car show. I'll do wheel stands and burn outs--I just will not do them where the safety controls are not set up for them.

maasfh

Turbopackman wrote:

I heard you Hudson guy's were a rough crowd, but jeesh! I'll stick with the Packard crowd, we just sit around drinking fine wine and eating caviar while smoking Cuban cigars and discussing the fine points between a Super Eight and a Twelve. I guess we're just more civilized! LOL! :eek:

Sure glad you come over to see what we hudson guys are up to. Hope it adds to some excitement in your life. I bet you Packard folks consume a lot of "Activia" to help with constipation from all that sitting around in those fine big leather chairs.

Turbopackman

I wouldn't go that far, I'm kinda known as an "outlaw" in the Packard circles....

royer

Browniepetersen wrote:

As I have said recently on this Forum, I am retiring and expect to attend a lot of regional and national meets in the next decade. I want to be sure there are events to attend.

Brownie - based on the behavior at this year's national, you won't have to worry about nationals and regionals being canceled.

PAULARGETYPE

I for one can make a perfict ass out of myself with out drinking any thing stronger than iced tea and i saw nothing wrong with the burn outs at st. Louis or this years national meet 'fun is what it's all about' my son wanted to do a burn out in our 57 hollywood at the national but thought he better not after i reminded him of how he broke and axel the last time we had the 57 in detroit lol

hudsonguy

If you have a Hudson that can DO a burn-out....more power to you!

VicTor Z

http://www.hotrodders.com/journal_photos/00019871/12542456050.jpg

dougson

VicTor Z wrote:

http://www.hotrodders.com/journal_photos/00019871/12542456050.jpg

Somehow, I doubt that it's a "super six" or splasher eight.......................:rolleyes:

frankmn

i don't think you need to organize a burn out contest or burn out box. simply state that burn outs are not condoned at our nationals and let it go. you will get a few and that will be that. i expect 1 or 2 at every show i go to. if you say we are allowing burn outs you will be out of control like right now. burn outs which are a great joy to me are part of the car culture. i don't think everybody who wants to do a burn out needs to go to a drag strip thats two different things. it is in away a test of strentgh and power of your car. when i see a beefed up car at a show first thing i look at is rear quarters to see how much rubber is hanging off. you can't clam the hudson was king of nascar and other things without showing a little power now and then. first beleive that in moderation this burnout thing is fun then have a blast. keep in mind if parts break or tires blow and people are to close they will get hurt.

Ken U-Tx

At least they haven't told me I can't skate on my inline speedskates on the lots at the meets yet! I had one fellow in a golf cart at the Pontiac National say I should watch my speed after I passed him in the golf cart. Hmmmmm, and yeah I guess I won't be emptying John Pontius' beer keg while skating up a storm like I did in Auburn at the 2001 Central Regional anymore either....

1941HUDSON

I knew it was just a matter of time before my name got drug into this, when you people mentioned BEER! HE,HE,HE,HE!:rolleyes: John Pontius

Pacemaker500

I want to see the factory demo of the Hudson against a brick wall and put through the gears.

I might even condsider volunteering my Hudson.

Ol racer

FYI

There certainly are a lot of pro's & con's regarding the Burnout at the National but knowing that a certified drag racer acomstomed to doing high powered burnouts is at the wheel should relax. Granted freak things could always ocur but didnt because of the equipment safegards.

Most everyone in their respected areas that go to Cruise-In's regularly see burnouts by inexperienced young (& old drivers) with crowds sometimes overflowing into the streets. If these inexperienced drivers blew a tire or broke an axle and lost control yet it would be a catastrophe... A couple of times again this summer I seen police come and sit in the middle of the street more concerned with crowd control than the drivers actions...

Rather than prohibit a Hudson Hornet powered Car to show its stuff at a Regional or National, perhaps arrange a drag race event and/or an un-official (because of liability) 'safer area' in a Parking Lot, etc, to demonstrate the Fabulous Hudson Power so we dont ever forget their racing legacy and its power pontential even today....

Many, (but not all) people were buzzing about the burnouts hoping to see another the next day, so those people will migrate to wherever the Burnout takes place.......

I only wished my Hudson below was together at that time to burnout too....

Turbopackman

Ol racer wrote:

FYI

Rather than prohibit a Hudson Hornet powered Car to show its stuff at a Regional or National, perhaps arrange a drag race event and/or an un-official (because of liability) 'safer area' in a Parking Lot, etc, to demonstrate the Fabulous Hudson Power so we dont ever forget their racing legacy and its power pontential even today....

That's what the KKOA does in their National meet in Salina, Ks. They use the old airport and have it all organized and roped off for drag racing and burnouts. Might be something to think about if it's available to you.

onerare39

"Everyone meet at Old Airport Road"

signed,

Dragstrip Delinquent

Clutch guy

1941HUDSON wrote:

I knew it was just a matter of time before my name got drug into this, when you people mentioned BEER! HE,HE,HE,HE!:rolleyes: John Pontius

Guilty as chrged!

Hanson Motor Co.

Is it considered an open container if you have your mouth over the end of the bottle?

Tim

MikeWA

Turbopackman wrote:

I wouldn't go that far, I'm kinda known as an "outlaw" in the Packard circles....

So YOU'RE the guy who won't let the wine "breathe", but insists on helping it along by going right to the mouth to mouth resuscitation. . .

Turbopackman

No, I'm the guy with the PBR and the torn jeans and the forced induction Packard...

twelch

Ol racer wrote:

Rather than prohibit a Hudson Hornet powered Car to show its stuff at a Regional or National, perhaps arrange a drag race event and/or an un-official (because of liability) 'safer area' in a Parking Lot, etc, to demonstrate the Fabulous Hudson Power so we don't ever forget their racing legacy and its power potential even today....

Just think, most of us use to stand in the front seat when we were kids, had pointed scissors, and drank tap water straight from the faucet.

The fact is, a classic car show is a spectacle...its one of the last places to visit "Hard America" and the wares produced by the Greatest Generation. We should take DNA samples at the gate so there is a repository for the future, when the need arises to reconstitute real Men and Women.

I know that a show can be run with roaring engines, the smell of toasted rubber, and Beer....... and be safe. Its really all up the to organizers. I know there are lawyers and would-be suer's out there looking to cash-in. Its all about how the event is run. The spoilers have pretty much put an end to the Free shows of any scale....but the small gate price is worth the safety in most cases.

When we run Free shows, we get the hotrod, wheel smok'n folks to setup the safety area, set the rules, and run that part of the show......it always works!!!

PaceRacer50

Turbopackman wrote:

No, I'm the guy with the PBR and the torn jeans and the forced induction Packard...

You are going to fit in just fine with the rest of us HUDSON guys.....

I'm the guy with the Hawaiian shirt, bottle of Jeggarmister and the

supercharged Hudson.

Tell us about the blown Packard.

PaceRacer50

mrsbojigger

It's happening other places too! I saw in the evening news last night that Boerne, Texas just passed a city ordinance banning burn outs, screetching tires, laying rubber, etc. Interestingly, this is just about 11 days before the big Boerne Rod Run. There is up to a $500 fine for doing it.
Peace,
Chaz

walt norem

mrsbojigger wrote:

It's happening other places too! I saw in the evening news last night that Boerne, Texas just passed a city ordinance banning burn outs, screetching tires, laying rubber, etc. Interestingly, this is just about 11 days before the big Boerne Rod Run. There is up to a $500 fine for doing it.

Peace,

Chaz

Sounds like the city found a way to fill their coffers! Knowing it is going to happen anyway, ordinance or not. The local courthouse will do well that weekend.

Turbopackman

PaceRacer50 wrote:

You are going to fit in just fine with the rest of us HUDSON guys.....

I'm the guy with the Hawaiian shirt, bottle of Jeggarmister and the

supercharged Hudson.

Tell us about the blown Packard.

PaceRacer50

Starts here: Eric's 356 powered Speedster

I started out with a rusty Packard 327 9 main engine, and have since graduated to a 356 9 main'er. If all works out well, and it sonic checks ok, I'll bore it from 3.5" to 3.587 and have me a 374 straight eight. (To compete with the V8 guys) I'm working on putting two turbos on it, as well as fuel injection. I'm still tossing up the idea of just running dual quads and the two turbos, haven't decided yet.

46HudsonPU

walt norem wrote:

Sounds like the city found a way to fill their coffers! Knowing it is going to happen anyway, ordinance or not. The local courthouse will do well that weekend.

These type of local restrictions, laws, etc., have been around for at least 40-50 years. As a kid in LA, I recall a young kid working on a nice old chevy panel truck and getting pulled over because he had burned rubber and his muffler was too loud (two warning citations). Honestly, he probably didn't have any muffler...
I was young, and it was my first 'observation' of someone souping up a vehicle. It was a neat truck with good patina/paint, company logos, etc., and above the rear doors was "A blind man is driving this truck"... A lot of people would give their eye teeth for something like that now, but it wasn't worth towing away back then -

Nevada Hudson

Turbopackman wrote:

Starts here: Eric's 356 powered Speedster

I started out with a rusty Packard 327 9 main engine, and have since graduated to a 356 9 main'er. If all works out well, and it sonic checks ok, I'll bore it from 3.5" to 3.587 and have me a 374 straight eight. (To compete with the V8 guys) I'm working on putting two turbos on it, as well as fuel injection. I'm still tossing up the idea of just running dual quads and the two turbos, haven't decided yet.

Why not just hop up the 1954 359ci straight eight?

Turbopackman

Nevada Hudson wrote:

Why not just hop up the 1954 359ci straight eight?

Because I can't find a '54 359. I have two 356's that are rebuildable so that's what I'm using. And after looking over the 356, it's 100 times a better engine than the 359 ever was. It's better built, has larger lifters, bearings, clutch, rods, the crank is better made, even the cam has 9 bearings as opposed to 5 on the 288/327/359 engines. Heck, even the ports are larger for the intake and exhaust than the other engines.

rod_n_hudson

onerare39 wrote:

"Everyone meet at Old Airport Road"

signed,

Dragstrip Delinquent

Airport road in Detroit?

I heard about that place back in the day.

Oh, and, about the burnouts and beer. What till im on the road. I can only imagine how long that thread will get!

HAH!

Sarah Young

And on the next episode of women gone wild... Every time my husband called to see how I was doing I missed his call. When I called back I had something to rub in each time..."Hey, my rental car's a mustang."... "Oh, sorry I was just cruising Woodward in a Jet, we hit up the Irish pub for dinner"... "oh, I just ate at the Mexican restaurant, they had a good Mexican beer on tap, I'm walking back over to see who's hanging out in the parking lot before I head up to my room for the night."... "Oops, missed you again, I couldn't hear anything over the sound of the burnout"... It was great to be unleashed for a week.

On another note, I should dig out some pics from a small airport I used to fly out of here locally. The flying club put on some fun events since one of the fellow pilots is a Land Speed racer and another one owns a Corvette that had been an official pace car.. sometimes you just gotta indulge your need for speed...

We had a hand held radio to monitor for air traffic and went for it. Course, there was that one spot-landing contest incident that this guy will never live down...

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