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Another Orphan Joins our Ranks...
  • nhp1127nhp1127
    Posts: 2,275Platinum Member
    Seems like the latest with the GM bailout is that it has been decided to kill the Pontiac marque. That's right, no more Pontiacs. Yet another brother to attend the orphan meets. The latest word is that GM will be owned by the Government and by the UAW .... sounds just like the socialist French. Makes me sick.
  • Heart Of Texas
    Posts: 700Platinum Member
    nhp1127 wrote:
    Seems like the latest with the GM bailout is that it has been decided to kill the Pontiac marque. That's right, no more Pontiacs. Yet another brother to attend the orphan meets. The latest word is that GM will be owned by the Government and by the UAW .... sounds just like the socialist French. Makes me sick.

    Well I guess the 1953 Wasp and the 1971 Firebird Formula 400 will both be orphans. Pontiac has always been my next pick after Hudson as a collector car. :D
  • 37 Terraplane#237 Terraplane#2
    Posts: 1,659Platinum Member
    nhp1127 wrote:
    Seems like the latest with the GM bailout is that it has been decided to kill the Pontiac marque. That's right, no more Pontiacs. Yet another brother to attend the orphan meets. The latest word is that GM will be owned by the Government and by the UAW .... sounds just like the socialist French. Makes me sick.
    YEAH ? Well I think we ain't seen nothin yet, how else they gonna keep us in the cotton patch ? BUD
  • Jon BJon B
    Posts: 4,770Moderator
    The concept of the goodly (if depleted) numbers of Kaisers, Nashes, Hudsons, Studebakers and Packards at orphan car meets, being inundated with hundreds of Tempests and Sunbirds (along with Plymouth Volares and Olds F-88's), does not warm the cockles of my heart. Perhaps we need a new definition of "orphan": "neworphan" vs. "trueorphan".
  • BJ__TNBJ__TN
    Posts: 1,211Platinum Member
    I just saw on the news that GM is going to drop Pontiac, Hummer, Saturn as well as 2 others, by next year.
    Bob
  • nhp1127nhp1127
    Posts: 2,275Platinum Member
    Jon B wrote:
    The concept of the goodly (if depleted) numbers of Kaisers, Nashes, Hudsons, Studebakers and Packards at orphan car meets, being inundated with hundreds of Tempests and Sunbirds (along with Plymouth Volares and Olds F-88's), does not wrm the cockles of my heart. Perhaps we need a new definition of "orphan"....



    I agree... the thought being parked next to a Pontiac Aztec is worse than seeing Rosie O'Donnel in a bathing suit.
  • hudsontechhudsontech
    Posts: 4,047Platinum Member
    As much as they've "cheapened" the Caddy marque, they should just bury that one and let Lincoln rule the roost.



    But, then again, the Caddy is about 75% Chevy, Buick and Pontiac anyway - and most GM cars share the same body style with different name plates. So while the name is gone, the shape remains!!



    I had a '56 Pontiac Star Chief, 2-door hardtop, long years back. One of the most "dangerous" cars I ever owned. In this respect - you'd be tooling down the interstate thinking you were doing, oh, 60, 65 - look at the speedometer it would read 80, 85. That's how smooth that '56 was.

    More than once I caught myself up around 90 - and not intentionally. I going that fast, I want to be me doing it, not the car. Somebody told me, not sure how true this is, that those 55-56-57 years Pony's had very heavy frames (same as the convertibles - or maybe it was because I had the 2-door hardtop) so there was a lot of weight close to the ground giving that exceptional ride.



    Another of those "wish" cars - wish I still had it!!!



    Hudsonly,

    Alex Burr

    Memphis, TN
    http://www.hetclub.org/
    http://hetclub.org/burr/lithomepage.htm
  • RL ChiltonRL Chilton
    Posts: 3,458Platinum Member
    For some reason, I haven't been able to escape the cynicism that runs rampant in my head when thinking of automobiles the last few years. I think we're on a path in the very near future where there will be NO American Automobile manufacturers. Yeah, maybe assembled here, but names like Toyota and Nissan and Honda assembled here. GM, Ford, Chrysler will be gone. First Olds, now Pontiac. Cadillac and GMC are next. Chevy will be last, but it's coming, I'm sure.



    It's ironic. Totally ironic. In the 20's and into the '30's, there were over 3500 auto manufacturers here in America alone. What are we down to, 3? 5 or 6 if you split up GM?



    It's like steel production. We didn't invent steel, but we sure as hell invented steel production. Been #1 in that field for 90-some years. Where are we now? 7th. Despicable. It's my understanding that China will be building 2400 coal-fired power-plants this year alone. Their attitude is, America had their chance at polluting the air, now it's our turn. And they have no EPA in their country to stop them. On one hand, it's admirable that they are being so successful. On the other, it leaves us only selling ideas and not building ANYTHING. As long as we keep buying the junk they make, things won't change.:mad:
    Russell

    http://www.52hornetvert.blogspot.com
  • RL ChiltonRL Chilton
    Posts: 3,458Platinum Member
    nhp1127 wrote:
    I agree... the thought being parked next to a Pontiac Aztec is worse than seeing Rosie O'Donnel in a bathing suit.



    I don't know, Niels. Rosie in a bathing suit just made me shudder.



    'Course, Aztecs make me shudder, too . . .
    Russell

    http://www.52hornetvert.blogspot.com
  • Posts: 0
    Thats where the transfer of wealth happens....the countries that produce will get the wealth. China will eventually be the wealthiest and most powerful country if things keep going as they are.
  • RL ChiltonRL Chilton
    Posts: 3,458Platinum Member
    Jimalberta wrote:
    Thats where the transfer of wealth happens....the countries that produce will get the wealth. China will eventually be the wealthiest and most powerful country if things keep going as they are.



    I suppose it's wrong of me to think it, but I think that's downright scary, to me.
    Russell

    http://www.52hornetvert.blogspot.com
  • Lee ODellLee ODell
    Posts: 1,841Platinum Member
    RL Chilton wrote:
    For some reason, I haven't been able to escape the cynicism that runs rampant in my head when thinking of automobiles the last few years. I think we're on a path in the very near future where there will be NO American Automobile manufacturers. Yeah, maybe assembled here, but names like Toyota and Nissan and Honda assembled here. GM, Ford, Chrysler will be gone. First Olds, now Pontiac. Cadillac and GMC are next. Chevy will be last, but it's coming, I'm sure.



    It's ironic. Totally ironic. In the 20's and into the '30's, there were over 3500 auto manufacturers here in America alone. What are we down to, 3? 5 or 6 if you split up GM?



    It's like steel production. We didn't invent steel, but we sure as hell invented steel production. Been #1 in that field for 90-some years. Where are we now? 7th. Despicable. It's my understanding that China will be building 2400 coal-fired power-plants this year alone. Their attitude is, America had their chance at polluting the air, now it's our turn. And they have no EPA in their country to stop them. On one hand, it's admirable that they are being so successful. On the other, it leaves us only selling ideas and not building ANYTHING. As long as we keep buying the junk they make, things won't change.:mad:



    I was told that 20% of the smog in Calif. comes from China by way of trade winds. Why not restrict imports that do not meet the same EPA requirements that is imposed on U.S. manufaturing?
  • Jon BJon B
    Posts: 4,770Moderator
    Hey. look, this is a great discussion full of interesting viewpoints and opinions. Which is why I've just moved it to our "Discussions" section!
  • nhp1127nhp1127
    Posts: 2,275Platinum Member
    Jimalberta wrote:
    Thats where the transfer of wealth happens....the countries that produce will get the wealth. China will eventually be the wealthiest and most powerful country if things keep going as they are.



    I agree. Speaking as an American, we will be less powerful and less influential and that will make those that are leading us down this path very happy. Next time a democratic and free country gets over run, don't call us. Let the U.N. write them a letter of condolence.

    It may be years from now but much will come down to countries that have the most natural resources such as water and food production. China and Russia have alot, US and Canada have alot. The Middle East? You can't eat oil.
  • nhp1127nhp1127
    Posts: 2,275Platinum Member
    Jon B wrote:
    Hey. look, this is a great discussion full of interesting viewpoints and opinions. Which is why I've just moved it to our "Discussions" section!



    Damn... I tried to slip it by you disguising it as an "Orphan"thread lol
  • Uncle JoshUncle Josh
    Posts: 1,860Platinum Member
    Well, now that Pontiac is an orphan, maybe we should get Michigan to change the name of our meet city to 'Hudson' in honor of our big anniversary.
  • mrsbojiggermrsbojigger
    Posts: 586Platinum Member
    Hey Guys,
    Don't be so hard on the little Aztec! You can probably pick one up real cheap these days since not many people want them. IMHO, it's so ugly it's almost cute and with a little imagination it could be turned into a sporty little city "runabout". Just drop that sucker on the ground, add some fender skirts, WW's and a horizontal grill and Presto!
    Peace,
    Chaz
    -pontiac-aztec 3_124099411546694.jpg
    496 x 295 - 70K
    www.themodernartist.com
  • Jon BJon B
    Posts: 4,770Moderator
    Wow, that's fantastic! Good work! Hey, could you try superimposing a pair of separate bullet-shaped headlight pods like on my '37? (Blank our the bumper headlights, of course...) And how about a long, vertical waterfall grille like mine????
  • tombia
    Posts: 305Gold Member
    Guess what fellows. The problem is right here,IT's US. The rest of the world did not put it here , we did, If the goverment wasn't doing what it is doing, then there would not be a GM, ETC. Someone needs to put some kind of control on the Greedy managers of these companies. You don't call someone being socialist, because they are trying to save it. I remember 8 years ago I bought a new Honda Civic, one of my friends made the comment that he would not buy a Jap. car. BUT he would buy a Ford Focus, funny thing was only thing on the Honda made overseas was the Transmission and about the only part on the Foscus made here was the transmission. Most people rant about what other people are doing when its them causing the problem.
  • Aaron D. IL
    Posts: 1,648Platinum Member
    Some of the orphan car events I've gone to only let Orphan GM makes like Olds that were made before 1965 at a show and no modifieds. Funny to think though that going to an orphan show wouldn't mean anything if all American cars were orphaned.

    Anyways we have a huge trade deficit precisely because we're not making (and selling) things from here. We make a lot of paper and debt though. US strength is in it's industrial might and production capacity. US did (maybe still does) have the most machine tooling in the world, meaning we could make anything. If we sell all that tooling to China well that's short-sighted on our part. I've heard good arguements though that, it is not the USA that is declining, it's that the rest of the world is catching up to us. Any economic mistakes that the US is a party to, there's plenty of blame to go around on all sides but that's not going to fix anything.

    As far as socialism, I don't think that's an arguement at all. The press in some circles is using the term "socialism" as a loaded word probably because they can't use the word "communism" or it would seem quaint and dated and no one would take them seriously. It's just fear mongering. Let's name some of the "horrible" places that are "socialist" France, Canada, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland etc. I don't think the US could pull off real or effective socialism though, we can't get our individualist culture to agree on that much of anything.
  • nhp1127nhp1127
    Posts: 2,275Platinum Member
    tombia wrote:
    Guess what fellows. The problem is right here,IT's US. The rest of the world did not put it here , we did, If the goverment wasn't doing what it is doing, then there would not be a GM, ETC. Someone needs to put some kind of control on the Greedy managers of these companies. You don't call someone being socialist, because they are trying to save it. I remember 8 years ago I bought a new Honda Civic, one of my friends made the comment that he would not buy a Jap. car. BUT he would buy a Ford Focus, funny thing was only thing on the Honda made overseas was the Transmission and about the only part on the Foscus made here was the transmission. Most people rant about what other people are doing when its them causing the problem.



    Tombia,



    I understand that you are pro-union and anti-management and that is OK but labeling auto management as greedy? Give me an example? A very select few make super mega money and if they do, it is all done above the table and approved by the board of directors upon which the UAW has representation. Top management is recruited. There is no union to protect managers. They have to survive on their productivity and benefit to the company. You may want to look at how much Union leaders make....it is hundreds of thousands and that is just above the table. We should also mention the squeeky clean UAW like their past and current ties with the Mob, the unproductive work schedules, holidays, benefits, etc. It has help to bleed the US automanufactures dry. It is a major contributor to making them uncompetitive. You don't call the Govt and union takeover of one of the largest corporations in the world socialist? this is cookie cutter France. Look at Airbus and most of the european automakers and their ties to their governments- now tell me we aren't moving socialist.

    If I were running GM, I would file bankruptcy, restructure, make some good cars and let the UAW renegotiate or have them stand in the unemployment line with the rest of Detroit.
  • nhp1127nhp1127
    Posts: 2,275Platinum Member
    Aaron D. IL wrote:
    Some of the orphan car events I've gone to only let Orphan GM makes like Olds that were made before 1965 at a show and no modifieds. Funny to think though that going to an orphan show wouldn't mean anything if all American cars were orphaned.

    Anyways we have a huge trade deficit precisely because we're not making (and selling) things from here. We make a lot of paper and debt though. US strength is in it's industrial might and production capacity. US did (maybe still does) have the most machine tooling in the world, meaning we could make anything. If we sell all that tooling to China well that's short-sighted on our part. I've heard good arguements though that, it is not the USA that is declining, it's that the rest of the world is catching up to us. Any economic mistakes that the US is a party to, there's plenty of blame to go around on all sides but that's not going to fix anything.

    As far as socialism, I don't think that's an arguement at all. The press in some circles is using the term "socialism" as a loaded word probably because they can't use the word "communism" or it would seem quaint and dated and no one would take them seriously. It's just fear mongering. Let's name some of the "horrible" places that are "socialist" France, Canada, Sweden, Denmark, Switzerland etc. I don't think the US could pull off real or effective socialism though, we can't get our individualist culture to agree on that much of anything.



    Glad you mentioned the country of my forefathers... Denmark. Denmark has the highest tax rate in the world.... 63% income tax and 25% sales tax. They say it is cradle to grave coverage but I have relatives there and it isn't as lovely a system as some people think. Takes months to get a medical appointment and there is no such thing as initiative and entrapreneurs. Free college education if wanted and then many just go straight to the Government unemployment program.



    Margaret Thatcher said it perfectly: "Socialism works great until you run out of other peoples money".
  • Aaron D. IL
    Posts: 1,648Platinum Member
    Gov't and union takeover? Who asked for the money? The big 3 companies did. You think people or the Gov't gives money without strings attached? (like they wish) The big 3 went to the Gov't. Can't have it both ways.... be "free market" and "Gov't supported." They want to take the Gov't's money and then blame the Gov't for their problems.

    That's corporate welfare and it has been going on long before this mess.

    Union does not have a squeeky clean past (I totally agree) but neither does management and the union already reneotiated contract concessions also even before this mess and they're renogotiating it again precisesly to stay out of the unemployment line. Execs justify their pay based on the risks they take which line employees are not willing to take. risk=reward. If they get bailed out they're not taking risks are they? They believe in the market handeling everything up until the point that they're loosing, then they want to be bailed out. If that's not hypocrisy I don't know what is.
  • nhp1127nhp1127
    Posts: 2,275Platinum Member
    Aaron D. IL wrote:
    Gov't and union takeover? Who asked for the money? The big 3 companies did. You think people or the Gov't gives money without strings attached? (like they wish) The big 3 went to the Gov't. Can't have it both ways.... be "free market" and "Gov't supported." They want to take the Gov't's money and then blame the Gov't for their problems.

    That's corporate welfare and it has been going on long before this mess.

    Union does not have a squeeky clean past (I totally agree) but neither does management and the union already reneotiated contract concessions also even before this mess and they're renogotiating it again precisesly to stay out of the unemployment line. Execs justify their pay based on the risks they take which line employees are not willing to take. risk=reward. If they get bailed out they're not taking risks are they? They believe in the market handeling everything up until the point that they're loosing, then they want to be bailed out. If that's not hypocrisy I don't know what is.



    That's why I think we should let them file BK. Yes the govt does give money away with no strings attached. It's called welfare. The govt and union don't know how to run a business. I agree with some of your points but Lee Iacocca (Chrysler) got money from the Govt and he payed them back without handing ownership over to the Government. Also, I may be wrong, but I am not aware of Ford getting any bail out money. Execs don't have complete free rein. They have govt and union intervention and that includes in the car designs. As far as the unions, they are a business with in themselves. IMHO, they have given up very little in their negotiations. There are plenty of high mileage cars and technology already being sold by Ford and GM in Europe but our Politically Correct Govt and EPA won't let them in because of "emissions" (and europe is more "green" thinking than we are).
  • Posts: 0
    Aaron,



    How exactly do you figure that Canada is a "socialist " country ?
  • Aaron D. IL
    Posts: 1,648Platinum Member
    Jimalberta wrote:
    Aaron,



    How exactly do you figure that Canada is a "socialist " country ?



    Jim - In comparison with the US and also according to some conservative media down here, Canada is socialist. But that wasn't my point, my point was that there are arguments made here that we're headed towards that and I don't think that it's going to happen, nor are such arguments convincing. The same way in the past a lot of FEAR was pushed on Americans that we might become communist or move that way. Also that many parliamentary socialist countries are not 3rd world places like many countries in Africa you could name. You can argue how innovative or not they are, but their people not suffering to the same degree because of government intervention... inefficient though it may be.



    Niels - Don't disagree with you. But if the big 3 are going to ask for a loan then let's call it a loan and agree to the terms. Loans certainly have stipulations. I certainly wouldn't get bank loans thinking there were no strings attached and then sit around badmouthing the bank about how they ruined my finances and how their policies amount to taking over my business. I'm the one who went to them.



    I think you're right too, Ford opted out of the bailout deal. They didn't like the terms.
  • MikeWAMikeWA
    Posts: 1,446Platinum Member
    Couple of other observations:



    We in the US of A already have about the most stringent environmental standards in the world, to the extent that most manufacturing has gone overseas. "Cap and Trade" will be about the last nail in the coffin of US manufacturing, I fear. So the question for the environmentalists is, "Isn't the world better off with US doing some of the manufacturing, under pretty stringent standards, rather than having it all done in countries like China with NO standards?"



    Also, the Pontiac Aztec is no longer the world's ugliest car! I saw a Kia Soul today, finished in a bilious chartreuse green. The lines are a little like an Aztec, but its homeliness defies description! The tail lights alone make you wonder how many mental wards they went through to find the designer. I didn't get to see the front, which was probably just as well, because it was getting close to lunchtime.
  • Posts: 0
    Aaron,

    I don't think you know what socialism is.

    Canada is no more socialist than the US used to be. We are a capitalist country just like the US was, Australia, England, etc etc.
  • tombia
    Posts: 305Gold Member
    nhp1127 wrote:
    Tombia,



    I understand that you are pro-union and anti-management and that is OK but labeling auto management as greedy? Give me an example? A very select few make super mega money and if they do, it is all done above the table and approved by the board of directors upon which the UAW has representation. Top management is recruited. There is no union to protect managers. They have to survive on their productivity and benefit to the company. You may want to look at how much Union leaders make....it is hundreds of thousands and that is just above the table. We should also mention the squeeky clean UAW like their past and current ties with the Mob, the unproductive work schedules, holidays, benefits, etc. It has help to bleed the US automanufactures dry. It is a major contributor to making them uncompetitive. You don't call the Govt and union takeover of one of the largest corporations in the world socialist? this is cookie cutter France. Look at Airbus and most of the european automakers and their ties to their governments- now tell me we aren't moving socialist.

    If I were running GM, I would file bankruptcy, restructure, make some good cars and let the UAW renegotiate or have them stand in the unemployment line with the rest of Detroit.



    Lets see? Hummmmm. Last time I remember being in a union was 1964.Since that time I was involved in some type of managment AND also owned my own business for quite a few years till retiring in 2004. Sorry old buddy, but the fact are there for all to see. Remember AIG, and the CEO.?
  • nhp1127nhp1127
    Posts: 2,275Platinum Member
    tombia wrote:
    Lets see? Hummmmm. Last time I remember being in a union was 1964.Since that time I was involved in some type of managment AND also owned my own business for quite a few years till retiring in 2004. Sorry old buddy, but the fact are there for all to see. Remember AIG, and the CEO.?



    I remember Jimmy Hoffa (in a concrete parking lot somewhere), Al Capone and many other Union mobsters. Glad you mentioned AIG - isn't that the large corp that the Government bailed out and then the Dems protected the bonus pay outs? Yep, for all to see. Isn't Barney Frank such a character? All that Fanny Mae stuff and bad loans? He is hilarious!



    Alas- I must now move on to other areas that interest me like the current Miss California who is being slammed for responding to a gay judges question: stating that she feels marriage should be between a man and a woman... how contraversial! So much for free speech here in the good ol US of A.
  • tombia
    Posts: 305Gold Member
    Me thinks you may have a problem selectivly remembering only what fits your personal agenda, not the actual facts. Whatever floats your boat.
  • nhp1127nhp1127
    Posts: 2,275Platinum Member
    tombia wrote:
    Me thinks you may have a problem selectivly remembering only what fits your personal agenda, not the actual facts. Whatever floats your boat.



    I think you nailed it on the head. I like my personal agenda and I determine what the facts are. I know, its a novel idea. I tend to stay away from lemmings.
  • walts garage-53
    Posts: 1,470Platinum Member
    nhp1127 wrote:
    Seems like the latest with the GM bailout is that it has been decided to kill the Pontiac marque. That's right, no more Pontiacs. Yet another brother to attend the orphan meets. The latest word is that GM will be owned by the Government and by the UAW .... sounds just like the socialist French. Makes me sick.
    The EPA is the reason we are going broke. They are chasing business left and right out of this country. If you want to buy something, it's only made overseas. I just bought a Westinghouse flat screen TV and opening the box, MADE IN CHINA. It's funny, in driving the Hudsons of the 30's and 40's, gas at 10 cents per gallon and mileage in the 20 range, then GM started big V-8 and 6 to 7 per gallon and It's been down hill ever since. Walt.
  • Hudsonrules
    Posts: 398Platinum Member
    :pIn the sixties, management earned roughly about twenty five times what the lowest guy or gal on the totem pole earned, now it is in eccess of four hundred times. GREED? at the top?. Lets get back to the cars. GM and I am sure other companies as welll can design and build a very good car, but they will spend millions on how to take short cuts in producing a quality car. Corvair was an example, good on paper and that was all. Forty plus years ago, all the car companies had good economical six cylinder engines and the midsize cars then had adequate interior room and comfort. Now the midsize car of yesteryear is the full size car of today. Now we almost need a degree in enginerring just to open the hood. Nearly impossible to find a real mechanic. You have to take the vehicle back to the da-- dealer for everything and they gouge you again and again. When the vehicle is seven or so years old, the da-- dealer begins telling you how hard the parts are to come buy and you should trade you car in and get a new one while your car still has trade in value. What we buy now is overpriced,plastic throwaways. I would really like to see Falcons, Chevy2's, Valients, Rambler Americans and Dodge Darts on the road again. Pretty good cars and you could open the hood yourself. Along with my Hudsons, I have a Subaru and a Nissan. Why did I buy the NIssan? I do not like the Ford and Toyota Dealer in Town. One reason the car companies are hurting so bad is because of some dealers. I guess I said enough. P.S. Yes when the EPA got involved, the American cars began going downhill. Arnie in Nevada
  • tombia
    Posts: 305Gold Member
    Not sure about this,but didn't Chrysler have about 8 Billion in reserves when Diamler came on? Seems to me that they took all of Chryslers goodies then booked. I had similar dealings with various dealers myself. The Honda dealer tryed to pull full book on a 1 year old Civic. I didn't tell them I was paying cash, should have heard him back pedal when he found I had cash in hand. Jeep dealer was very accomadating tho, He got my money. Bought a Liberty. My big question to these companies is what happened to all the money they made over the years?
  • royerroyer
    Posts: 998Platinum Member
    Hudsonrules wrote:
    Why did I buy the NIssan? I do not like the Ford and Toyota Dealer in Town. One reason the car companies are hurting so bad is because of some dealers.

    It's true, the dealers are the ones influencing our buying decisions. I've always found it difficult to buy foreign cars from the dealers where I live. The only new Jap. car I ever bought was in 1997. Nissan was advertising a 24 month lease deal on Altimas (advertised as 25 were available) , and I was tired of the junk mercedes I was driving. It took me over four hours to convince them to sell me the car for the price they were advertising. No more new Jap. cars since then for me.
  • Aaron D. IL
    Posts: 1,648Platinum Member
    Chrysler just filed for bankruptcy today. They're talking about joining up with Fiat....well the Germans couldn't do it, maybe the Italians will make it work. ....and yes your new Chrysler might just be a badge engineered Fiat. Article I was reading said they'd get fuel efficent cars out of the deal. Are Americans really incapabile of designing and building a fuel-efficent car? I don't think so.
  • Posts: 0
    Are Americans really incapabile of designing and building a fuel-efficent car? I don't think so.



    GM built the EV1 and it was just getting going as a good viable car, then it was bought out by either Shell or Texaco can't remember but it was a good design and the batteries were getting better and better. The engineer stated that the batteries would outlast the car. ( saw an article on this just last week on TV.)
  • 51hornetA51hornetA
    Posts: 2,338Platinum Member
    I loved Letterman last night he had Elon Musk the CEO of Tesla Motors on. They discussed the Volt Letterman asked him whats the range of your new sedan he said around 350 Miles between charges. Letterman then said GM has the Volt they are promising 40 Miles on a charge(its actually 60) ...."Thats crap" I mean the volt is a hybrid is has a small motor to charge so the range is more but the statement "Thats crap" just about sums it up. They have the commercial for GM and "sometime after 2010 the Volt" Is this the best they can do. NO, not by a long shot its just plain lazy.



    Car companies got lazy and bloated and failed to innovate. There aren't any car companies that get me up against the window with my nose pressed against the glass. When I was a kid and my Dad would take me down to the dealer with him I was in heaven. GM and Chrysler suffer from rot from within.



    In the Day Pontiac and Olds and Chevy duked it out for bragging rights trying to one up each other. When they went common components they should have nuked the individual brands at that point. Whats the point of having a Chevy truck and a GMC truck and the only difference is the badges. Crazy crap. They do not make exciting cars anymore. All the innovation in cars is in the small shops now like Foose. These guys should outsource the design to smaller nibble US companies and mandate them to knock our socks off. Get the design out of the bloated company and into small shops and tell em we want a car that looks great gets 50 to the gallon or is total electric and stop pissing around feeling sorry for themselves and taking crap from people that they cannot build good cars. Its a load of BS. If I was managing down there you would see a lot of people standing because none would be able to sit after I put my foot up their ass to get the job done.



    Just needs the right people in charge. Car people not a-holes would don't get their hands dirty.
    www.hudsonmotorcar.org
  • nhp1127nhp1127
    Posts: 2,275Platinum Member
    To be accurate, Chrysler is now owned by Fiat, the UAW and the US Government. I can't wait to see the new Pelosi speedster! Ha!
  • royerroyer
    Posts: 998Platinum Member
    Aaron D. IL wrote:
    Are Americans really incapable of designing and building a fuel-efficient car? I don't think so.

    Americans are incapable of buying a fuel-efficient car. Chevy Cobalt XFE gets 37 mpg highway, better than Corolla and Civic. Plus, it's 155 net hp from a 135 cubic inch engine. (1.15 hp per cubic inch)

    I doubt it will take long for folks to remember that FIAT is an acronym for Fix It Again, Tony!
  • mrsbojiggermrsbojigger
    Posts: 586Platinum Member
    Hey Jon B,
    Here is the Aztec with a vertical grill and Porche type headlights.
    P.S. None of you are going to solve the problem so take the time that you are venting and apply it to working on your Hudsons. The Hudsons get some attention and your stress level will be greatly reduced. icon7.gif
    Peace,
    Chaz
    -pontiac-aztec 4_124125153646694.jpg
    496 x 295 - 52K
    www.themodernartist.com
  • tombia
    Posts: 305Gold Member
    I can remember when the Fiat was the best selling car in the World. May still be? I think what caused Fiat problems over here was a total lack of good service facilities not poor design. Chrysler and its predisesors(spelled wrong) were the inovators of the industry. Look at the NEW Camero, Looks like a Dodge.
  • Posts: 0
    Chaz, I'm sitting here reading and absorbing and some day when I'm voted in as Benevolent Dictator I promise I'll do some really great things and solve a lot of problems.

    By the way I'm now an owner of Chrysler corp. you too Sean...exciting eh?
  • jsrail
    Posts: 1,534Platinum Member
    Wow! More BS talk radio talking points! Chaz is right, shut up and work on your Hudsons, none of you have the answers or the real facts, nor could any of you do anything about any of it, you have no power, influence, or money. Its outta your hands, so stick with cars. Any of you that believes your vote counts, is highly delusional.

    All right, some are saying I haven't been around here to stir up trouble, so here goes! LOL

    Jay :-)
  • MikeWAMikeWA
    Posts: 1,446Platinum Member
    mrsbojigger wrote:
    Hey Jon B,

    Here is the Aztec with a vertical grill and Porche type headlights.

    P.S. None of you are going to solve the problem so take the time that you are venting and apply it to working on your Hudsons. The Hudsons get some attention and your stress level will be greatly reduced. icon7.gif

    Peace,

    Chaz



    Chaz,

    I think your photoshop of the Aztec merely proves that while beauty is only skin deep, ugly goes to the bone. Jimalberta, if you become Benevolent Despot, you're first official act should be to take away Chaz's photoshop privileges, if he's just going to waste it on Aztecs! :D



    BTW, Chaz, find a pic of the Kia Soul, and see what you can do with it! It makes the Aztec look like Sleeping Beauty!
  • nhp1127nhp1127
    Posts: 2,275Platinum Member
    jsrail wrote:
    Wow! More BS talk radio talking points! Chaz is right, shut up and work on your Hudsons, none of you have the answers or the real facts, nor could any of you do anything about any of it, you have no power, influence, or money. Its outta your hands, so stick with cars. Any of you that believes your vote counts, is highly delusional.



    All right, some are saying I haven't been around here to stir up trouble, so here goes! LOL



    Jay :-)



    "none of us has the answers or the real facts"..... Jay, we missed you. I think you need to be a little more "tolerant" of opposing view points.. ha, ha
  • Aaron D. IL
    Posts: 1,648Platinum Member
    Good post 51HornetA! There sure would be a very different company culture if it were run by people who weren't afraid to get down on the assembly line and get their hands dirty themselves if the need arose. Maybe they should just give all of GM's resources to Tesla Motors and see what they do with it.
  • 51hornetA51hornetA
    Posts: 2,338Platinum Member
    Right you are Aaron I am tired of this horsesh*t we cannot build good cars. Look around there are plenty of small outfits building great cars. Big three suffered from bloat. You need a car man or woman in there. Roll up your sleeves put your boot up peoples ass get rid of the chafe break the design and engineering divisions out into competing groups and get them building great cars again.



    You think we can't build a good car that economical thats total crap. You had pencil pushers look at the margin on big vehicles and they bet the farm on short term profit did not look ahead when you got those aholes running your company you are destined to tank.



    Its all doom and gloom instead of getting younger people in there to revitalize it. Whats the new GM President he looks 95 get someone in their 40's in there a car guy give him the tools break up the company into competing divisions and the cars that get built are the ones that come out on top.



    Like the old days of Pontiac, Olds, Buick and Chev each tried to kick the others asses and it produced good cars.



    Do not tell us you are producing an electric car with a 60 mile range with a small gas engine you call a Range Extender and expect us to buy that. I can do better than that in my back yard and many small companies are blowing away the Volt specs and they have 100000th the budget. Kick these type of engineers in the ass and show them the door. Bring in the guys who get you 350 miles on a charge. I want to talk to those guys. Or a cheaper move buy Tesla and put their sedan into mass production. Probably save GM 2 billion over that Volt POS.
    www.hudsonmotorcar.org
  • RL ChiltonRL Chilton
    Posts: 3,458Platinum Member
    51hornetA wrote:
    Right you are Aaron I am tired of this horsesh*t we cannot build good cars. Look around there are plenty of small outfits building great cars. Big three suffered from bloat. You need a car man or woman in there. Roll up your sleeves put your boot up peoples ass get rid of the chafe break the design and engineering divisions out into competing groups and get them building great cars again.



    You think we can't build a good car that economical thats total crap. You had pencil pushers look at the margin on big vehicles and they bet the farm on short term profit did not look ahead when you got those aholes running your company you are destined to tank.



    Its all doom and gloom instead of getting younger people in there to revitalize it. Whats the new GM President he looks 95 get someone in their 40's in there a car guy give him the tools break up the company into competing divisions and the cars that get built are the ones that come out on top.



    Like the old days of Pontiac, Olds, Buick and Chev each tried to kick the others asses and it produced good cars.



    Do not tell us you are producing an electric car with a 60 mile range with a small gas engine you call a Range Extender and expect us to buy that. I can do better than that in my back yard and many small companies are blowing away the Volt specs and they have 100000th the budget. Kick these type of engineers in the ass and show them the door. Bring in the guys who get you 350 miles on a charge. I want to talk to those guys. Or a cheaper move buy Tesla and put their sedan into mass production. Probably save GM 2 billion over that Volt POS.



    Now tell us how you really feel! :D Lot o fgood points, here . . .
    Russell

    http://www.52hornetvert.blogspot.com
  • royerroyer
    Posts: 998Platinum Member
    Tesla....if it's electric, why does it have a grill?medium_3388437814_82eb485a03_o.jpg
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